lorenfb
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:28 pm

LeftieBiker wrote: Probably the easiest way to explain it is that if you "split" something, there is only one of it.
What? And how would you "split" a sine wave voltage source? Maybe use another tap on the line transformer which is 180 degrees
out of phase? And call that the out-of-phase 120V RMS line relative to the neutral line input.
LeftieBiker wrote:You then end up with two halves that together still add up to just one.
Right, two voltage phases when measuring between the two phases that add up to just one phase. You do understand,
and no need for wiki!
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:05 pm

lorenfb wrote:
smkettner wrote:Homes in the US are generally 240v, split phase. This is single phase service. Commercial or industrial may have three phase.

No two phase. Fun to argue though because 'phase' has two different meanings that apply. Wiki explains it better than I can.
There are two phases or a split phase for those that like to parse words and need to refer to wiki
i.e. each line is 180 degrees out of phase (an angle):

Vphase1 = Vrms x sin (A)
Vphase2 = Vrms x sin (A+180)

Vphase3 = Vphase1 - Vphase2 (any phase other than 180 degrees results in less than 240V RMS)
A three phase system has three phases, each 120 degrees out-of-phase with each phase.

And for those that must always refer to wiki; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_(waves)
In physics and mathematics, the phase of a periodic function F of some real variable t is the relative value of that variable within the span of each full period.
Should we continue parsing terms?
OK skip Wiki. There are plenty of electricians pages and blogs that explain single vs three phase.
None that explain two phase. Maybe because ?????

https://www.elprocus.com/difference-bet ... er-supply/
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:19 pm

I was squirming at the grammar and syntax in the above, when it occurred to me that this is probably a European article, written by someone for whom English is a second language. European grid power is at least almost universally single phase 230 (?) volts. There is no 120 volt grid to speak of, so they don't talk about split phase 240 volt systems. The piece thus describes single phase as having 230 volts. At least that's my take on it...
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Nubo
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:24 pm

lorenfb wrote:Should we continue parsing terms?
No need for parsing. It's a matter of convention. Electrical engineers have decided what "multiphase" and "single phase" mean for electrical distribution. I'm guessing they're more concerned with the "phase" running to the local transformer, and the split there is more of a niggle.

And in fact, per the wiki:
Since the two phasors do not define a unique direction of rotation for a revolving magnetic field, a split single-phase is not a two-phase system.


Seems like the output waveform(s) from the generator are what the semantics are based upon.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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SalisburySam
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:42 am

RustyShackleford wrote:
lorenfb wrote:That's the best you can contribute, parsing words?
You're wrong, period. In science/engineering, specific words are very important, such as the difference between 90 degrees and 180 degrees. I don't want to "pull rank", but I am imminently qualified on electrical matters.
Agree words are important. Which is why being imminently (happening very soon) qualified is very, very different from eminently (to a notable degree) qualified.
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:46 am

SalisburySam wrote:
RustyShackleford wrote:
lorenfb wrote:That's the best you can contribute, parsing words?
You're wrong, period. In science/engineering, specific words are very important, such as the difference between 90 degrees and 180 degrees. I don't want to "pull rank", but I am imminently qualified on electrical matters.
Agree words are important. Which is why being imminently (happening very soon) qualified is very, very different from eminently (to a notable degree) qualified.
Touche'.
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:00 pm

Agreed, ,. Most houses have a center tapped single;e phase circuit. From both legs ignoring the neutral is 240vVAC
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lorenfb
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:09 am

GlennD wrote:Agreed, ,. Most houses have a center tapped single;e phase circuit. From both legs ignoring the neutral is 240vVAC
So there're really two phases 180 degrees out of phase, referenced to the neutral (the transformer's center tap), at the house's
main panel. Most couldn't care less what happens at the power compamy's line transformer. When I put my dual trace scope probes,
on each line referenced to neutral, the display indicates two sine waves 180 degrees out of phase.

Hardly that complex! Some still failing to understand the issue?
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
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SalisburySam
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:35 am

lorenfb wrote:
GlennD wrote:Agreed, ,. Most houses have a center tapped single;e phase circuit. From both legs ignoring the neutral is 240vVAC
So there're really two phases 180 degrees out of phase, referenced to the neutral (the transformer's center tap), at the house's
main panel. Most couldn't care less what happens at the power compamy's line transformer. When I put my dual trace scope probes,
on each line referenced to neutral, the display indicates two sine waves 180 degrees out of phase.

Hardly that complex! Some still failing to understand the issue?
No difficulty understanding the aspects of phasing. There is also no difficulty understanding that there is really no two-phase terminology convention used in the US for home power. The convention, regardless of if technically a two-phase scenario exists, is the home power is single or split-phase.

I agree that few care about what goes on at the transformer, even less care about the technical distinction of power phases.
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lorenfb
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Re: dumb question about quick charging

Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:00 am

SalisburySam wrote:
lorenfb wrote:
GlennD wrote:Agreed, ,. Most houses have a center tapped single;e phase circuit. From both legs ignoring the neutral is 240vVAC
So there're really two phases 180 degrees out of phase, referenced to the neutral (the transformer's center tap), at the house's
main panel. Most couldn't care less what happens at the power compamy's line transformer. When I put my dual trace scope probes,
on each line referenced to neutral, the display indicates two sine waves 180 degrees out of phase.

Hardly that complex! Some still failing to understand the issue?
No difficulty understanding the aspects of phasing. There is also no difficulty understanding that there is really no two-phase terminology convention used in the US for home power. The convention, regardless of if technically a two-phase scenario exists, is the home power is single or split-phase.
Good, so you're beginning to understand! When wiring a house, most (not brain dead) think in terms of two phases and how to
distribute/load the two phases at the main panel. Thinking in terms of a single phase at the main panel provides no insight whether
installing new breakers or solving a partial power failure in the house. Ever attempted to determine which of the two phases powers
what areas of your house? Maybe do a wiki search, right?

Still having a problem?
SalisburySam wrote:I agree that few care about what goes on at the transformer, even less care about the technical distinction of power phases.
Wrong!
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

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