sdwarwick
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:51 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Aug 2019

Level 3 at home

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:11 pm

Hi Folks - I'm working with a startup company that is looking at developing a true "level 3" DC charger for residential deployment. This would enable you to fully charge the car in 30 minutes from 90% discharge at home. The system would run off of standard home wiring, and would essentially "build up" a charge for fast-dump into the car, and then go through a slow build-up again.

The intent would be to bring fast charging to places where only L2 is typically available, and would potentially eliminate one of the key constraints around owning an EV.

Although the technology issues have been solved, there is still some controversy as to actual interest from the EV community. I was wondering if people in this group would have an opinion as to if this would be of "high value"

As a complete charging unit the price would be something like 25% of the cost of the EV itself.

I look forward to your thoughts.

Tortoisehead77
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:59 am
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Leaf Number: 307925
Location: Portland, Oregon USA

Re: Level 3 at home

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:28 pm

This is awesome.

One of the barriers with mass adoption of EV's is apartment dwellers. Do renters really want to drive to the nearest Level 3 charger and wait 40 minutes for a charge every other day? Perhaps if apartment complexes installed this Level 3 at home technology, more people would be inclined to purchase an EV.

SageBrush
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Location: NM

Re: Level 3 at home

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:29 pm

Awesome idea, but I also am not sure you have a market.

Residential ? Nah. L2 is fine, cheap, and easier on the battery
Commercial ? Waaaay too expensive unless transport is a service. Taxis maybe ? Or courier services.
Government installations ? Maybe

I would be interested in 5 minute charging, rather than 10 - 90% SoC. I would view it as a range extender or an emergency charge.
Last edited by SageBrush on Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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Randy
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Re: Level 3 at home

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:31 pm

Ok, sounds like a storage/charging solution. Perhaps fil the batteries with solar power or super off-peak grid power, and then charge the car fast whenever the driver wants.

I was thinking that there might be some drivers that would be interested in that, but then at the end of your posting I saw that the price point you're aiming at would be 25% of the price of the car.

That's where I think the problem is...Many EV drivers that I have experience with hesitate over spending a few hundred dollars to install a Level 2 EVSE, and try to make Level 1 charging work.

So my educated opinion is that there will be a few people that would be interested in a solution like what you're describing, despite the cost.

But will you be able to sell enough units to that smaller group to make a go of it? My guess would be - probably not....

SageBrush
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Location: NM

Re: Level 3 at home

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:39 pm

^^ Another way of saying this is that it is a lot cheaper to buy a Tesla than an expensive L3 charging solution. And more generally, as EVs with larger batteries take over (in the USA anyway) the use of urban, public L2/L3 drops.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
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Re: Level 3 at home

Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:57 pm

This looks like a better overall solution that trying for actual commercial DCFC speeds:

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=29954


For $4k you get a unit that will charge your car a bit faster, and provide car to home power sharing.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
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Re: Level 3 at home

Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:11 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:57 pm
This looks like a better overall solution that trying for actual commercial DCFC speeds:

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=29954
For $4k you get a unit that will charge your car a bit faster, and provide car to home power sharing.
There are ~ 1000 CHAdeMO EV sales a month in the USA and the vast majority are to people who missed out on a Tesla due to a couple thousand dollar cost difference.

Nah
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
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Re: Level 3 at home

Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:18 pm

Pro-Tesla trolling is just as obnoxious as anti-Tesla trolling. I, for example, didn't want a Tesla, and do want a Wallbox or whatever it's called, if it performs as advertised, for no more than $4k. There are a lot of Leaf drivers who would like a bidirectional system like this at home. You are partially correct, in that the faster charging isn't the main selling point for many of us.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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Randy
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Re: Level 3 at home

Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:18 pm

So, knowing that your LEAF battery has a limited number of charge/discharge cycles to be usable before some amount of degradation sets in, I'm not sure that I want to use them to power my house or support the grid (the payments for doing that are way too low to make it useful).

I guess I'd have to get more information on how it would all work...And more information on how it would impact battery warranties....

jjeff
Posts: 1951
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Re: Level 3 at home

Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:19 pm

Interesting idea and as much as I have many different L2 EVSEs I'd probably not be interested in such a product :)
I'm guessing it wouldn't really useful for a business as they'd want to be able to have someone do a QC and then potentially someone else a few minutes later, it would be best suited for single-family use and at that price it probably wouldn't be saleable. Interesting idea and I can understand the cost, just can't see it being a good business venture.
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