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Marktm
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Re: Level 3 at home

Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:49 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:57 pm
This looks like a better overall solution that trying for actual commercial DCFC speeds:

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=29954


For $4k you get a unit that will charge your car a bit faster, and provide car to home power sharing.
sdwarwick:
I would consider a bidirectional unit similar to the "Wallbox DC unit" if it also includes a MPPT based solar input. Of course it also must be grid compatible with split phase 240 VAC. and meet safety codes - with a transfer switch. At 7+ kw, it would double my current charge limit and could allow a meaningful emergency panel power level to keep refrigerators running and possibly a small A/C unit (it's 99 degrees right now). Would not worry about degradation - power level is so low and with a good app, would keep the SOC in safe ranges. Since I can buy a used Leaf at a cost well below most hi tech lithium off grid battery packs on a kWh basis, why not use it as the battery storage.

If you can produce this unit (essentially a small hybrid grid tied inverter with energy storage based on CHAdeMO compatibility), I believe you will have a product to sell.
Just my opinion.
2012 Leaf SL; 43,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Level 3 at home

Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:18 pm

Randy wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:18 pm
So, knowing that your LEAF battery has a limited number of charge/discharge cycles to be usable before some amount of degradation sets in, I'm not sure that I want to use them to power my house or support the grid (the payments for doing that are way too low to make it useful).

I guess I'd have to get more information on how it would all work...And more information on how it would impact battery warranties....

I agree with you. My interest, and that of many other Leaf drivers, would be in using the Leaf as a backup power source, not a daily grid-tied demand buffer. Leaf batteries are not, despite Nissan's optimism, ready for that application.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
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Re: Level 3 at home

Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:20 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:18 pm
Pro-Tesla trolling is just as obnoxious as anti-Tesla trolling. I, for example, didn't want a Tesla, and do want a Wallbox or whatever it's called, if it performs as advertised, for no more than $4k. There are a lot of Leaf drivers who would like a bidirectional system like this at home. You are partially correct, in that the faster charging isn't the main selling point for many of us.
No trolling intended, and the world does not revolve around you.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
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Re: Level 3 at home

Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:25 pm

I know that you understand the meaning of "for example" so I'll just assume that you're in a bad mood. Please count to ten, do breathing exercises, whatever it takes to be a bit more civil.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
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Re: Level 3 at home

Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:09 pm

You, for example, are ONE person. And while your "interest" is worth about as much as it cost you to post that on the internet, I presume a few sales a month are possible. That is why I said 'the vast majority' rather than everybody.

Are you insulted by being included in the penny pinching EV market ? <<shrug>>
I bought a LEAF as part of that market too, and even a perfunctory scan of threads in this forum make it dead obvious that LEAF is engineered to be offered at the lowest cost Nissan can manage and EV quality plays second fiddle. People do not argue that the LEAF is a good EV; they argue that it can be a good EV value. And then they agonize over whether they should spend a few hundred dollars to have L2 charging at home, or they buy cheap Chinese EVSE knockoffs of uncertain quality and safety to save $100 . These people are not going to spend another $7,500 for an extra 2 kW of charging ... before installation costs.

As for V2G, the monetization is only a gleam in someone's eye. Electricity during a black-out ? There are much simpler and much less expensive alternatives, and they do not degrade the poor LEAF battery along the way. So who is left ? Well, self-contained, 100% electric off-grid homes for example.

There must be 5 of those in the country. How many of them are CHAdeMO EV owners ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
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Re: Level 3 at home

Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:04 pm

If you live in a mild climate, the Leaf is a very good EV - better than the Model 3 for comfort, value, and user-friendliness. The rest is just insult and baseless pooh-pooing of valid interests - except for the comments on battery degradation with regular grid storage use, with which I have already agreed. Some people just make you wish that they were on the other side, I'm afraid, and that's how we each feel, I think. You can have the last word here.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Oilpan4
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Re: Level 3 at home

Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:40 am

I'm one of the few people who has a home level 3 charger.
It's a toy level 3, only peaks at 8kw on the leaf.
New they cost around $3,400, I don't know if that included shipping from china.
I would like to buy a bigger chademo, used of course. But I never see them for sale.

I have to admit SageBrush is 100% correct. People really do agonize over spending a few hundred dollars on getting home level 2 charging going.
I don't know if they realize a few hundred dollars could spiral up to thousands of dollars if their electrical is obsolete or over loaded and they have to get a panel update and service upgrade.

To make something like this you take my little level 3 charger which was $3,400 then add some kind of battery rig to allow it to hit 50kw on the output. That's got to be a at least a $6,000 machine.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

DougWantsALeaf
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Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Level 3 at home

Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:27 am

The link just goes to Amazon. I have a 200 amp main into my house. How much throughput could I get with something similar to your level 3? (Without a battery intermediary)
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

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jlv
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Re: Level 3 at home

Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:06 am

sdwarwick wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:11 pm
As a complete charging unit the price would be something like 25% of the cost of the EV itself.
If we are talking $8K-10$K, then I don't see much change of this succeeding for residential deployment.

(Personally, I can't think of one time in 5 years that we would have needed such an ability at our house.)
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18) 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%
Tesla S 75D (3/17)
Tesla X 100D (12/18)
88K 100% BEV miles since '14
ICE free since '18

Zythryn
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Re: Level 3 at home

Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:54 am

I see the use case of a home level 3 as very limited.
If people already have 220V power available, very few would see an advantage to having the car charged in 20 minutes over having it charge in 4 hours.
Once I am home, I don't care if the car is fully charged by 7pm or 5am. I suspect many people are in the same boat.

The only market I see for this would be people that drive a lot of miles each day and come home for lunch. While I am sure there are a few of those, I doubt it is enough to support your product.
Previous owner of Prius, Volt, Leaf & Model S
Current owner of Model 3
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