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Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:40 am
by linkim
Glenn wrote:I'm with Chris on this, Phil. Keep it simple. You know better than anyone what works and how to optimize the product, so give us the best bang for our buck. Let Blink add the bells and whistles, they already know how to overdo things!
I vote for keeping it simple. For an "electrically-deficient person" like me, I just want to plug the EVSE in the wall outlet and let it do its thing. I have the mod-EVSE from Phil but haven't had a need to use it yet. My Blink appears to be working fine (knock on wood) so far.

Thanks Phil for your efforts.

Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:41 am
by Spies
wq2345 wrote:That being said, I will likely have to put in a dedicated L6-20 outlet for Revision2 as I don't believe the Quick220 would be wise (or work?) with a 20A draw.
I would certainly recommend putting in a dedicated outlet but I thought the Quick220 was designed to handle 20a:
Model: A220-20L Version 2 20 Ampere, 4600 watts 220/240 volt single locking outlet NEMA L6-20
I also agree leaving the 120v at 12a and boosting the 240v to 16a is the way to go. Great work Phil!

Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:43 am
by greenleaf
Ingineer wrote: 4. Presently the unit charges at the standard 12A when used on 120 volt outlets and the full 16A when used on 240 volts.
Sounds like a good combination!

Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:48 am
by Ingineer
wq2345 wrote:My vote: no need for the lower charge rate.

Lower charge rates don't seem particularly useful (it's low enough at 12A 120V or 16A 240V already).
The promise of a higher rate (20A 240V) is definitely worth it obviously.

That being said, I will likely have to put in a dedicated L6-20 outlet for Revision2 as I don't believe the Quick220 would be wise (or work?) with a 20A draw.
Thanks again for your work Phil.
Keep in mind, the LEAF only draws 16a, not 20. This should be ok with most 20a circuits as long as you don't have worn outlets, etc. If you try it on a circuit protected by a 15a breaker, it will trip within a few minutes.

This is the only argument I can see for reduced level on 240v.

FYI: On quite a few occasions I have used my homebrew version of the Quick220 to charge at 16a on my Plug-In Prius, and I have never yet had a problem, even in 80 year old victorian houses in SF with only two 20 amp circuits in the whole house!

-Phil

Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:54 am
by davewill
Sounds perfect. I see little point to 12a 240v for my purposes. Feel free to do it to mine while you have it! Seriously. I have a Blink, and have freedom to do some testing and report back, or send it back if there are problems.

Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:02 am
by Ingineer
IBELEAF wrote:I am probably way ahead of time, but still curious if this upgrade will work with future Leafs that might have 6.6 kWh chargers
In the prototype, I have set the Pilot to 33.3% duty cycle, which will allow up to 20a. So if you had an EV with a 6.6kva charger, you would only get 4.8kva. That's about ~73%, so not bad.

I can't safely increase beyond 20a without new hardware in the EVSE. And as it is, I need to run extensive tests at 20a to verify there is no problem.

6.6kva will require 27.5a, which really should have better than 12awg cable as well, so really the whole EVSE would need to be replaced. (Except for the sticker on the front that says "Zero Emission"! =)

-Phil

Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:08 am
by abasile
Ingineer wrote:Keep in mind, the LEAF only draws 16a, not 20. This should be ok with most 20a circuits as long as you don't have worn outlets, etc. If you try it on a circuit protected by a 15a breaker, it will trip within a few minutes.
Thank you for working to improve our charging options! How common are 15A breakers out there? My only data point is that our service panel dates back to 1981 and 20A is the smallest we have. The Quick 220 unit I purchased is rated at 16A max. continuous, or at 20A for three hours or less. So we should be good on that front.

Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:19 am
by QueenBee
I understand KISS well but I think anyone who plans on using this along with a quick220 would certainly need the 12A/220 model or as Phil noted at 16A draw a 15amp breaker will trip so if you didn't have two 20amp circuits you would be stuck at 12 amp 110volt draw.

One other thing to note is how a circuit is sized. From some of the messages its not clear that everyone understands that ~16 amps is the most you should draw on a 20 amp circuit and that it also requires at a minimum a 20 amp circuit. In the simplest form you take the load and then add a 25% safety margin and round up to the nearest standard size. So 12A * 1.25 = 15, so 15 amp circuit and breaker. 16A *1.25=20 so 20 amp circuit and breaker.

Thanks Spies, it was too "early" for math :)

Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:30 am
by Spies
QueenBee wrote:In the simplest form you take the load and then add a 20% safety margin and round up to the nearest standard size. So 12A * 1.2 = 14.4, so 15 amp circuit and breaker. 16A *1.2=19.2 so 20 amp circuit and breaker.
I thought the NEC rule was 25% over for continuous loads so I have always just multiplied the load by 125% so 12A would become 15A and 16A would become 20A. Now if you have a circuit and one wants to know what continuous load it can handle than it would be 20% less or 80% of the circuit rating so 20A becomes 16A and 15A becomes 12A.

Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:34 am
by GeekEV
That sounds great, Phil! Though I'm a bit confused by the statement that the LEAF draws 16a. It's a 3.3Kw changer in the car, right? By my math, that's 13.75A max at 240v. What am I missing?

But in any case, this rev 2 mod will be capable of up to 20A (if the car supports it)? Did I read that right?

Thanks!