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davewill
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Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Thu May 19, 2011 1:22 pm

GeekEV wrote:For those talking about using this with a Quick220 type device, I have a question. This is probably my electrical naïveté taking here, but wouldn't the 20A (maximum) draw be effectively split between the two 120v legs such that each circuit would effectively see 10A? That would be fine on a standard 15A circuit, no?
No. you draw the full amount from both circuits. That's why 240v 12a charges your car twice as fast as 120v 12a.
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Ingineer
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Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Thu May 19, 2011 1:28 pm

Dave is correct.

You can always remember this rule: The current (amperage) is always the same in all parts of a circuit, If the car is drawing 16a, then everywhere you will see 16a flow throughout the circuit. Normally the circuit (imaginary) starts at the hot on 120v and returns to the neutral, the only difference on 240v is that the return is through the other hot leg.

This is why the upgraded EVSE can charge twice as fast on 240v without any increase in current. The EVSE doesn't see any additional current or voltage drop, so it's the same as on 120v.

-Phil
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nader
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Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Thu May 19, 2011 2:09 pm

Ingineer wrote:
nader wrote:Of the few garages I have scouted for use of the Quick 220 none of them had two dedicated 20 amp outlets. At best I encountered one 20 amp and one 15 amp outlet. So in this scenario the Rev 2 would be popping breakers all the time.

While I want the full 16 amps to use at RV parks and with dryer plugs, I'd hate to vibe up the flexibility the Quick220 offers.

I vote for user selectable amperage settings. Then it becomes a full featured, "give me all you've got" EVSE!
The question is, If I have to spend more dev time adding the user interface (as simple as it may be), how much extra are you willing to pay for selectable amperages?

-Phil
Give us a price estimate. (I won't hold you to it ;) ) $50, $100, more?

It also depends how much the firmware upgrade for Rev 2 costs too.

TEG
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Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Thu May 19, 2011 2:25 pm

Ingineer wrote:There is no EV currently on the market right now I'm aware of, except for a Tesla with a converter dongle, that can draw more then 16A from J1772.
-Phil
FYI, there are some of us with old Ford RangerEVs with adapter cables that can connect the J1772-1996 (Avcon) to J1772-2009. So I can unplug my 3.3kW Leaf from the home Blink and plug the Ranger in through the adapter and pull 6.6kW just fine. (The Blink is connected to a 40amp breaker.) I have no idea what would happen if I tried to charge the Ford RangerEV through one of your modified adapters. I don't know about the flexibility of the charger built into the Ranger. For all I know, if it doesn't get a 6.6kW capable pilot signal it might refuse to charge.

So far I haven't encountered any J1772-1996 or J1772-2009 that aren't 6.6kW so I never tried it at lower rates.

If you ever build something that is 6.6kW capable and need someone to test it, let me know.

I guess I could try the 20A version of the Leaf adapter too if you wanted to see what happens.

A Tesla Roadster would be a more flexible test through, since you can pick the charge rate from the touchscreen in the vehicle.
(The Ford RangerEV doesn't offer any charge rate selection, so it is a mystery to me if it will work at less than ~30A. )


Oh, also I have a couple of old SCI EVSEs with Avcon/J1772-1996 output, and NEMA14-50 input.
They are on the large size to be considered portable.

essaunders
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Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Thu May 19, 2011 2:50 pm

From the forgotten 36: I'd love what ElectricVehicle said. I've always wondered why the volt has a low power setting. Good for the "share with the coke machine" situation, but that charge rate is so slow as to be sortof pointless

Luft
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Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Thu May 19, 2011 3:08 pm

This is the best news I've heard yet! :D My only concern is that by the time I get my LEAF you may not be doing this anymore! :(

Do you think you'll still be doing the upgrades this fall/winter? :?:
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davewill
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Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Thu May 19, 2011 3:18 pm

Ingineer wrote:The question is, If I have to spend more dev time adding the user interface (as simple as it may be), how much extra are you willing to pay for selectable amperages?
For me, it's not the money as much as it is the user interface. When you first mentioned the possibility way back in the stone ages, you were talking about clicking the switch on the handle and toggling LEDs. I'd be worried about my wife, for instance, popping breakers or mistakenly charging at the wrong rate because she happened to stutter on the button, or do an extra plug in, in that scenario. Having it only work in 240v mode does alleviate that concern a bunch, though. I'd prefer a real 2 position switch myself, preferably one stiff enough that it can't be accidentally toggled. That makes the software easy, but the hardware more difficult...aren't us software guys always doing that? ;)

Anyway, to answer your question, I'd probably be willing to go for an extra $30-50 or so. In the end, we're only talking about a modest increase in charging time. I think a lot of the excitement here is more psychological than real...making the lowly "emergency" EVSE work exactly like the expensive units. In truth, the mod as it is is highly functional, and maybe entirely adequate.
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Ingineer
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Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Thu May 19, 2011 3:27 pm

TEG wrote:FYI, there are some of us with old Ford RangerEVs with adapter cables that can connect the J1772-1996 (Avcon) to J1772-2009. So I can unplug my 3.3kW Leaf from the home Blink and plug the Ranger in through the adapter and pull 6.6kW just fine. (The Blink is connected to a 40amp breaker.) I have no idea what would happen if I tried to charge the Ford RangerEV through one of your modified adapters. I don't know about the flexibility of the charger built into the Ranger. For all I know, if it doesn't get a 6.6kW capable pilot signal it might refuse to charge.

So far I haven't encountered any J1772-1996 or J1772-2009 that aren't 6.6kW so I never tried it at lower rates.

If you ever build something that is 6.6kW capable and need someone to test it, let me know.

I guess I could try the 20A version of the Leaf adapter too if you wanted to see what happens.

A Tesla Roadster would be a more flexible test through, since you can pick the charge rate from the touchscreen in the vehicle.
(The Ford RangerEV doesn't offer any charge rate selection, so it is a mystery to me if it will work at less than ~30A. )


Oh, also I have a couple of old SCI EVSEs with Avcon/J1772-1996 output, and NEMA14-50 input.
They are on the large size to be considered portable.
If the Ranger is J1772 compliant with old Avcon standard, as it should be, it will charge at the lower rate. The standard originally was developed with a simple PWM system so current adjustment can be done with a simple analog circuit, so I'd be surprised if it didn't work properly.

-Phil
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Ingineer
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Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Thu May 19, 2011 3:36 pm

davewill wrote:For me, it's not the money as much as it is the user interface. When you first mentioned the possibility way back in the stone ages, you were talking about clicking the switch on the handle and toggling LEDs. I'd be worried about my wife, for instance, popping breakers or mistakenly charging at the wrong rate because she happened to stutter on the button, or do an extra plug in, in that scenario. Having it only work in 240v mode does alleviate that concern a bunch, though. I'd prefer a real 2 position switch myself, preferably one stiff enough that it can't be accidentally toggled. That makes the software easy, but the hardware more difficult...aren't us software guys always doing that? ;)

Anyway, to answer your question, I'd probably be willing to go for an extra $30-50 or so. In the end, we're only talking about a modest increase in charging time. I think a lot of the excitement here is more psychological than real...making the lowly "emergency" EVSE work exactly like the expensive units. In truth, the mod as it is is highly functional, and maybe entirely adequate.
I doubt seriously I will consider any kind of user-interface that involves drilling a hole in the housing. The best I could do is a magnetically operated switch, such that you wave a magnet at the front, and it changes modes. The LEDs would then indicate what mode the unit is in.

The best method which would be the lowest cost, is simply to have several modes that can be programmed by plugging/unplugging the J1772 connector in a certain sequence. The mode would be remembered between power cycles, and it's unlikely someone would accidentally "trip" this mode selection.

Another "no hardware" option is to use a paperclip between the 2 small holes in the J1772, which would cycle the mode. (this would not be dangerous, as there is no voltage over 12 present)

-Phil
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davewill
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Re: Revision 2 upgrade for Nissan EVSE - Allows full level 2

Thu May 19, 2011 3:47 pm

Ingineer wrote:I doubt seriously I will consider any kind of user-interface that involves drilling a hole in the housing. The best I could do is a magnetically operated switch, such that you wave a magnet at the front, and it changes modes. The LEDs would then indicate what mode the unit is in.

The best method which would be the lowest cost, is simply to have several modes that can be programmed by plugging/unplugging the J1772 connector in a certain sequence. The mode would be remembered between power cycles, and it's unlikely someone would accidentally "trip" this mode selection.

Another "no hardware" option is to use a paperclip between the 2 small holes in the J1772, which would cycle the mode. (this would not be dangerous, as there is no voltage over 12 present)
Wouldn't the plug/unplug sequence idea open up the possibility of having only a 15amp circuit available, but the device in 16amp mode with no way to change it but plugging it into the car and blowing the breaker? I guess you'd have to assume a 120v socket is always available in those cases. I like both the magnet and paperclip ideas, myself, and can see that the paperclip one is much simpler to execute. I can see where some people might be squeamish about poking around the J1772 with a paperclip, but we're enthusiasts, aren't we!
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