EV siphon?
- Thread starter MikeD
- Start date
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TomT
Well-known member
???
MikeD said:
davewill
Well-known member
Don't suck on the charging port. It won't hurt you, but it won't help, either.
smkettner
Well-known member
I would not lick it, let alone start a siphon.
GeekEV
Well-known member
In this post: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=100375#p100375
I think that's exactly what the OP is wanting to talk about. I'd like that too, or even settle for a J1772 "jumper cable". If the cost is reasonable, of course.TEG said:
davewill
Well-known member
There's nothing on the J1772 or QC ports that would be helpful. You'd have to tap into the high voltage on the car. Ingineer said in a post (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3144) that he could use his plug-in Prius as a charge vehicle for a stranded LEAF. I don't know whether that was theoretical, or actual. The easiest thing to do would be to connect an inverter to the HV to produce 120vAC (or 240v maybe), and plug an EVSE into it.
Coffee_Slurry
Well-known member
I'm not sure.. the OP, MikeD, wants to us discuss an "EV siphon".
I believe this is a reference to Heron's Fountain, a sort-of liquid perpetual motion machine that could be applied to charge the Leaf.
I believe this is a reference to Heron's Fountain, a sort-of liquid perpetual motion machine that could be applied to charge the Leaf.
Herm
Well-known member
The siphon cable would need a DC-DC converter that could handle 500V and a lot of amps.. expensive... otherwise there would not be any way to control the current flow if you connected a fully charged pack to a discharged one, there could be more than 100V difference between the two packs and massive currents. Much easier just to bring a generator.
Such a siphon cable would be almost as expensive as an L3 charger.
I doubt the inverter that keeps the Leaf's 12V battery charged up can deliver enough power to drive a 120V EVSE..
Such a siphon cable would be almost as expensive as an L3 charger.
I doubt the inverter that keeps the Leaf's 12V battery charged up can deliver enough power to drive a 120V EVSE..
davewill said:
Don't the QC DC lines connect directly to the pack?
I imagine there is a signal you send to close some relay or some-such to have direct access to the pack.
I wouldn't think they would have one way diodes or anything like that... Why couldn't you get pack power out of the CHAdeMO port?
The J1772 on the other hand goes to the input of the charger...
Really? Couldn't you do something like a giant resistor that slows current flow? It seems like they could just equalize each other without a full L3 charger type circuit. The L3 stations tend to be converting 3 phase AC to DC. Also one Leaf pack has a similar DC output to another, so it wouldn't necessarily have to do the same type of voltage conversion as a standalone L3 charger that is starting from line current.Herm said:
TomT
Well-known member
Nope, there is all kinds of continuous hand shaking that must go on to close that relay. And even if you could get both cars to close their relays it would be extremely dangerous to try to connect two battery packs together without a serious amount of electronics in between. Forgetaboutit!!!
TEG said:
GeekEV
Well-known member
It's probably not possible with the system as implemented, though it could have been if they'd designed it to be. But, let's think outside the box. Reading about the Dutch guys who charged their LEAF by regen while towing it behind their SUV has given me some inspiration. This is just a thought experiment, ok? I don't actually plan on doing this...
Picture a set of four wheel ramps with a set of dyno like rollers on the top connected to a sprocket underneath. Pull both cars nose to nose with their drive wheels on the dyno ramps and connect the opposing sprockets with a chain drive. Chock both vehicles and put one car in reverse and the other in drive. Hit the accelerator on one while the other regens. You'd have to experiment to see which direction works best.
Yes, there would be some challenges to make this work safely - but conceptually it should work, no? While not exactly compact, such a system could easily be thrown in the trunk and driven out to someone in need.
Picture a set of four wheel ramps with a set of dyno like rollers on the top connected to a sprocket underneath. Pull both cars nose to nose with their drive wheels on the dyno ramps and connect the opposing sprockets with a chain drive. Chock both vehicles and put one car in reverse and the other in drive. Hit the accelerator on one while the other regens. You'd have to experiment to see which direction works best.
Yes, there would be some challenges to make this work safely - but conceptually it should work, no? While not exactly compact, such a system could easily be thrown in the trunk and driven out to someone in need.
Herm
Well-known member
GeekEV said:
Sheez just tow the Leaf with two towing straps at a moderate speed.. either put the car in D or in Eco mode.. the regen should take up any slack if the car pulling slows down.
I will just be using my Dodge Ram with a 5kW generator in the back for level 2 or at the very least, my 1600 watt ETQ inverter generator for level 1 charging. And the ETQ only weighs 35 pounds and is small enough to stay in the trunk as a last resort and it only cost $358 on Ebay. Car to car is extremely dangerous and would require more parts and engineering than the concept is worth. In the event that you're stranded and need to charge, fall back on traditional methods like those I'm going to be using.
Herm
Well-known member
Test the ETQ 1600 when you have a chance, it may stall under the load so let it warm up first for a couple of minutes.. the 5kw unit is probably a better choice, and it will run far longer on a load of gasoline. Its a good idea to keep a spray can of carburator cleaner handy, keeps small generators from getting fouled up.. just a quick blast into the carb while its running does the job, remove the air filter first.
Herm said:
I will. As of right now, I am slated for Aug delivery, but am hopeful for July. I will have the generator today, it's 1600 watt continuous/1800 peak. The charger is only what? 1450Watts? That's right at 12 amps and the rated continuous is 13.3 so it will be close. Being that the ESVE is switch mode and not using a transformer, the inrush should be controlled to some extent. I'll post results when I get my LEAF. I do plan on testing the capacity today actually. I'm hopeful it will run a coffee pot that's rated for about 1500 watts.
Herm
Well-known member
jwallace3 said:
The generator also needs to break in, and that coffee pot would be a good load for that.. you dont want a gentle break in.
I'd expect that in the future, maybe, maybe not, the standards will be modified for grid storage initiatives. That way your car battery pack can store cheap off peak wind power and sell it back to the grid during times of high demand....and maybe you could devote some of your battery pack to this purpose if you intended on driving minimal distances.
rainnw said:
This is so far in the future right now I highly doubt we will see this option on EVs for a very long time to come. I am an electrical engineer who works as a consultant in the power industry for an extremely large firm. While this concept is still valid, there are a laundry list of problems that having generation this distributed causes. We are just now working on pilot programs to prove or disprove the concept of micro-grids. These are highly experimental projects with relatively small amounts of customers involved. As of right now we are only utilizing NG power generators and home PV. From the customers side you have to worry about synchronization, protection, and having enough homes to achieve load diversification so that the microgrid can support itself if it seperates from the main grid because of a fault or in some instances, peak demand load shedding. From the utilities prospective we have to automate the system to allow micro-grids to tie together and seperate which costs big bucks for communication infrastructure and switch automation. The ulitity also must be able to monitor the status of the micro-grid and be able to control all of the DG (distributed generation) devices, ie fire up a backup generator at a residence. This also costs additional dollars, even if the customer allows the utility to utilize their high speed internet for the communication to the DG device at their residence. Then you have to worry about a distribution system (grid) with a large number of switched configurations so now protective device co-ordination becomes a huge problem because as of right now they are only programmed with one, maybe two sets of protection settings for predetermined configurations. Adaptive relay settings are being discussed where the grid could adapt on the fly based on the new configuration if an event (fault) occured and the system reconfigured itself, but this requires a huge amount of engineering and software code which doesn't yet exist. The entire system model must update and a new short circuit simulation must be solved with the lates data, hopefully from an AMI sytem, which are also relatively new and as of right now have relatively slow communication systems so the real time data from meters would not be readliy available. In short, it's a huge problem that many engineers are working to solve, but the reality of it being implemented any time soon is just not realistic. And as of right now, it just looks like it's not worth all the money. The only reason anyone is even looking at this problem is the huge amount of ARRA money that is being spent on the projects and research.
