theds
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 1:04 pm
Delivery Date: 09 May 2014
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Quick Chargers Getting them soone

Mon May 05, 2014 2:47 pm

Speaking of hills, how is the LEAF's ability to climb hills? I'm in the process of leasing a LEAF and we live on a hill at 2000', and the final portion is quite steep, climbing 1500' over 2.5 miles. I'm wondering how much charge is need to climb this hill. And how much of the potential energy I can recover on the way down.

GRA wrote:
mxp wrote: Assuming you can get a full 100% charge at a QC from a Nissan dealership in San Jose, its a 75 mile trip down to CHOMP. Factoring in the mountain and hill terrains, will this particular trip to Monterey be suicide?? ;-)
Depends on conditions. Most of the trip is pretty flat. Having a look at it on gpsvisualizer. com, you climb from about 90' up to 400' before dropping back down to 150' south of Gilroy, then climb about 350' and lose it all again before you get to Monterey. Then there's a climb on Hwy 1 (from 7', the low point of the whole route, up to 638', the high point ditto) from the downtown Monterey area up to the CHOMP exit (HWY 68).

There are various side roads you can take, but if you want to keep on 101/156/1 there are quite a few L2s you can charge at on the way, in Gilroy, Castroville, Marina, and Seaside as well as a Monterey exit or two before you get to CHOMP's. Biggest problems are likely to come from wind and/or heater use, not elevation. On 156 between Prunedale and Castroville, if the traffic's even moderate you'll be going slower than freeway speed, if not in stop and go. Time of day is critical on the weekends, as well as whether there's a big event in the Monterey area, which turns 156 into a parking lot. So, it can be done, but it will be close.

GRA
Posts: 11174
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Quick Chargers Getting them soone

Mon May 05, 2014 5:35 pm

theds wrote:Speaking of hills, how is the LEAF's ability to climb hills? I'm in the process of leasing a LEAF and we live on a hill at 2000', and the final portion is quite steep, climbing 1500' over 2.5 miles. I'm wondering how much charge is need to climb this hill. And how much of the potential energy I can recover on the way down.
I'm sure others with experience of routine big climbs like abasile and dgpcolorado will chip in, but IIRC from drives done in the Cascades and reported here, a good ballpark figure is 1.5kWh/1,000 feet of climb (in addition to the energy for the distance). Figure you'll gain back no more than half as much, depending on how full your battery is and how cold it is. Tesla Model S owners figure losing 7 [Edit: 6] miles of rated range/1,000 feet going up and gaining 4 miles range/1,000 coming down, but the Model S is a lot bigger and heavier than a LEAF, so you should reduce those values. Anyway, start by using 1.5kWh/1,000 feet up, then adjust as necessary based on your experience.
Last edited by GRA on Wed May 13, 2015 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

theds
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 1:04 pm
Delivery Date: 09 May 2014
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Quick Chargers Getting them soone

Mon May 05, 2014 10:39 pm

So I should keep an extra of 10 rated miles on my way home. And I'm planning on only charge it to 80% at home to leave room for regen charging. I have a Prius now and on my way home I usually used up the battery but 1/3 way down the battery is already full and cannot take advantage of the regen for 2/3 of the way.
GRA wrote:
theds wrote:Speaking of hills, how is the LEAF's ability to climb hills? I'm in the process of leasing a LEAF and we live on a hill at 2000', and the final portion is quite steep, climbing 1500' over 2.5 miles. I'm wondering how much charge is need to climb this hill. And how much of the potential energy I can recover on the way down.
I'm sure others with experience of routine big climbs like abasile and dgpcolorado will chip in, but IIRC from drives done in the Cascades and reported here, a good ballpark figure is 1.5kWh/1,000 feet of climb (in addition to the energy for the distance). Figure you'll gain back no more than half as much, depending on how full your battery is and how cold it is. Tesla Model S owners figure losing 7 miles of rated range/1,000 feet going up and gaining 4 miles range/1,000 coming down, but the Model S is a lot bigger and heavier than a LEAF, so you should reduce those values. Anyway, start by using 1.5kWh/1,000 feet up, then adjust as necessary based on your experience.

cwerdna
Posts: 9801
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Quick Chargers Getting them soone

Mon May 05, 2014 10:49 pm

theds wrote:So I should keep an extra of 10 rated miles on my way home. And I'm planning on only charge it to 80% at home to leave room for regen charging. I have a Prius now and on my way home I usually used up the battery but 1/3 way down the battery is already full and cannot take advantage of the regen for 2/3 of the way.
I'm not sure what you mean by "extra of 10 rated miles". The GOM (guess-o-meter aka "distance to empty") is crap as it can't predict the future. I've personally seen GOM ratings in the low 80s to as high as 101 w/a full charge. It depends on what the recent driving history was.

I recall starting w/a GOM value of say 80 and having it go up to 88 after driving 8 miles. Or, if I go up the hills of highway 17 south, the GOM will drop 40 miles after traveling only 10-ish.

I pay little attention to it. '13+ Leafs have a % SoC display and that's worth paying more attention to than the GOM.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Quick Chargers Getting them soone

Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:15 pm

Follow the money:

Only 100 DCs, but assuming they are placed correctly, and designed and maintained to meet reliability standard exceeding the various rinky-dink efforts so far, this could be very significant, particularly for we living in the ~half of PG&E territory where there are NO DC's now.

PG&E Proposes Major Build-Out of Electric Vehicle Charging Stations

SAN FRANCISCO, Calif. — Pacific Gas and Electric Company (PG&E) today asked state regulators for permission to build an estimated 25,000 electric vehicle (EV) chargers at sites across its service area in Northern and Central California. If approved, this program would be the largest deployment of EV charging stations in the country...

All of the 25,000 stations PG&E proposes to build would have Level 2 chargers, which provide up to 25 miles of range for every hour of charging. To support travel between metropolitan areas, PG&E would also install at key locations 100 DC fast chargers, which can recharge an EV’s battery in only 30 minutes. A growing number of DC fast charging stations are being deployed along the "West Coast Electric Highway," which serves drivers from British Columbia to Baja California.

The chargers would be provided at no cost to the site host. PG&E proposes to own all of the infrastructure, but contract with third parties to build, install and maintain the chargers and manage customer billing. The utility expects that the program will take about five years to complete following approval by the California Public Utilities Commission...
http://www.pge.com/en/about/newsroom/ne ... g_stations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
no condition is permanent

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Quick Chargers Getting them soone

Sun May 10, 2015 11:14 am

I took a trip to the Bay area last week, ~700 miles over four days, and had a 100% DC success rate.

A little surprising, since two of the five DCs I used (Calistoga, Whole Foods Berkeley, BR San Ramon, Colma, and NB Nissan Petaluma) were last reported as down,- on plugshare.

With more and more drivers and BEV models with various (in)capabilities trying to use public charging, and with plugshare (unfortunately) placing comments by site, not giving separate comment sections to DCs, and not further segregating SAE combo comments fromCHAdeMO, there are more and more incorrect or ambiguous comments RE CHAdeMO functionality.

So I just want to remind all to please update site status when the DC is misreported as either working or not.

And specifically state that you used DC (and CHAdeMO, if there is a SAE combo DC at the site).

Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do to screen out comments from those who have problems with L2, SAE DC, or Tesla adapters, if they don't state that themselves.

In my case (fortunately) the recent - comments from Tesla drivers at Calistoga And Serramonte Center apparently reflected problems with their charge systems, and I was able to charge normally.

On the way home, however, I drove the ~25 mile shorter route on old 99 (the I-5 corridor, which is still public DC-less from I-80 to Oregon) rather than risk a detour to the Chico DC. So I spent ~4 hours in Corning Saturday afternoon charging L2 at a very nice RV park, just across the street from the Tesla DCs.

PS has been updated since, and it now seems likely that the - report for Chico Nissan's DC was probably was just another report of driver/vehicle failure.

BTW, I didn't stop at Good Earth (CHAdeMO only) in Fairfax on my way to Pt. Reyes, which had the best/worst - comment of all the DCs on my route:
the charging cable doesn't fit my Prius
http://www.plugshare.com/#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
no condition is permanent

GRA
Posts: 11174
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Quick Chargers Getting them soone

Mon May 11, 2015 6:27 pm

edatoakrun wrote:I took a trip to the Bay area last week, ~700 miles over four days, and had a 100% DC success rate.

A little surprising, since two of the five DCs I used (Calistoga, Whole Foods Berkeley, BR San Ramon, Colma, and NB Nissan Petaluma) were last reported as down,- on plugshare.

With more and more drivers and BEV models with various (in)capabilities trying to use public charging, and with plugshare (unfortunately) placing comments by site, not giving separate comment sections to DCs, and not further segregating SAE combo comments fromCHAdeMO, there are more and more incorrect or ambiguous comments RE CHAdeMO functionality.

So I just want to remind all to please update site status when the DC is misreported as either working or not.

And specifically state that you used DC (and CHAdeMO, if there is a SAE combo DC at the site).

Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do to screen out comments from those who have problems with L2, SAE DC, or Tesla adapters, if they don't state that themselves. <snip>
Yes, it'as a real pain when people don't report the type of car that had problems, and with which charger/EVSE.
edatoakrun wrote: BTW, I didn't stop at Good Earth (CHAdeMO only) in Fairfax on my way to Pt. Reyes, which had the best/worst - comment of all the DCs on my route:
the charging cable doesn't fit my Prius
Oddly enough, I saw a PiP using a public charger (Blink) for the very first time yesterday. I can't imagine the scenario that would justify anyone bothering for a PiP, given current gas prices and CCGI's $0.49/kWh for members or $0.59/kWh otherwise. If you're motivated by ideology you'd presumably choose a PHEV with a greater AER in the first place. Admittedly, the space utility of PHEVs available here other than the PiP is somewhat limited. Still . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 11174
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Quick Chargers Getting them sooner

Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:04 pm

Unfortunately I can't remember which forum I read this at, but someone posted that evGo is building a CCS/CHAdeMO QC in Gilroy (and there was much rejoicing)! People have only been asking for a QC there for the past 4+ years, to allow (non-Tesla) Bay Area BEV owners to get to Monterey/Carmel easily, and it's apparently happening. IIRR the poster said it was going in in the same general area as the other EVSEs, i.e. Premium Outlets. So, while it may only be a year short of the time when affordable BEVs will have the range to make Monterey non-stop, those with current gen. BEVs can still benefit. The QC sort of in Monterey (at CHOMP) is CHAdeMO only and the L2s in town are still pretty sparse, so this QC should boost people's flexibility even if they have a gen 2 BEV.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 11174
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Quick Chargers Getting them sooner

Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:01 pm

There are now eVgo dual-standard QCs in Tracy, Salida and Atwater, which means that Bay Areans with 2016 30kWh LEAFs should be able to get to Yosemite Valley via SR 140 (and maybe 120) with a single QC, provided they don't use HVAC and keep their speed to the lower of 55 mph or the speed limit. It may be possible to reach the Valley at higher speeds and/or with some HVAC usage, but I'm quite confident that it can be done with the above limitations.

As there is also an eVgo in Fresno, they should also be able to get to Yosemite and Kings Canyon NPs from there, with the same limitations, but charging facilities are even more limited in the latter than the former.

Soul EVs can probably get to Yosemite Valley via 140, but 120 would be more problematic, unless they charge at Ray Main's place in Hickman and maybe top up via 14-50 at Yosemite Pines Cpgrd. east of Groveland.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 11174
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: San Francisco Bay Area Quick Chargers Getting them sooner

Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:49 pm

Not sure exactly when it opened (Probably around 9/25), but NRG eVgo now has a long-asked for and anticipated dual-standard QC in Gilroy, at the Premium Outlets! The Plugshare listing says there are two each CHAdeMO and SAE, but until someone from here confirms that, I'll assume it's an error and there's only a single dual-standard QC. The photo of a charger shows it's different from the ones that I've previously seen eVgo put in.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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