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TimeHorse
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Re: EVSE Installation, Info and Cost Comparison Thread

Sat May 28, 2011 3:32 pm

Official word from Nissan as of this week in chat is the 6.6kW option won't be available with the Japanese LEAF models at all, and will only become an option when Smyrna starts producing cars with the 2013 model year.

This has me seriously hesitant to buy the 2012 models we get to order now, as per a recent conversation with a local dealership, in July 2011 in the southeast.
RIP CO2 Fre, 27 months, 42,282 mi & 11 bars.
unAmerican Job & Nissan's Rapid Depreciation cost $20,000!
5 hours on the road daily w/o Charge at Work on 100%.

Long Live CO2 Fre, Maxed 2013 SL, 20,000 mi/yr lease.
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rclams
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Re: EVSE Installation, Info and Cost Comparison Thread

Tue May 31, 2011 10:21 am

TimeHorse wrote:Official word from Nissan as of this week in chat is the 6.6kW option won't be available with the Japanese LEAF models at all, and will only become an option when Smyrna starts producing cars with the 2013 model year.

This has me seriously hesitant to buy the 2012 models we get to order now, as per a recent conversation with a local dealership, in July 2011 in the southeast.
N.B.: most LEAFs will be driven no more than 2 hours per day, leaving 22 hours for charging in the best situations (with charging at work) or about 12 hours in the normal situation.

After 2,300 miles of LEAFing, there has only been 1 time where I felt I needed to get some miles into the battery to go out to dinner with the wife after returning home a bit late from a remote site visit. To stay on schedule, we left the house with only about 15 minutes of L2 charging.

We drove 7 miles with a "Stage 1" low battery warning to a restaurant in Palo Alto, and I hooked up the Nissan Portable EVSE at 120v at the Lytton Parking structure (which has 3 inductive EVSEs from the 1970's but no J1772s yet).

After "Dinner and a Movie", we had over 20 miles in the tank to drive 7 miles home. Yay.

KeiJidosha
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Re: EVSE Installation, Info and Cost Comparison Thread

Tue May 31, 2011 2:32 pm

TimeHorse wrote:Official word from Nissan as of this week in chat is the 6.6kW option won't be available with the Japanese LEAF models at all, and will only become an option when Smyrna starts producing cars with the 2013 model year.

This has me seriously hesitant to buy the 2012 models we get to order now, as per a recent conversation with a local dealership, in July 2011 in the southeast.
10% of my trips and 20% of my EV miles over the last two years involve opportunity charging. 3.3kW is too slow. I want (and have been driving) an EV with utility. I have no choice but to wait.

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TimeHorse
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Re: EVSE Installation, Info and Cost Comparison Thread

Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:17 am

rclams wrote:N.B.: most LEAFs will be driven no more than 2 hours per day, leaving 22 hours for charging in the best situations (with charging at work) or about 12 hours in the normal situation.
Well, first off, Super-Off-Peak TOU, at least under the current EV-rate pilot program, will only be 4 hours. And since I plan to drive somewhere between 75% and 100% battery capacity per day (depending on traffic) I personally foresee a need for maximizing my charge, so 3.5 hours in Off-Peak and 4 in Super-Off-Peak isn't ideal, especially when I need the car at the end of SOP so there's no pushing the charge cycle into the far side of the SOP into Off-Peak. Best for me to start charging at 1am with SOP and finish by 5am (preferably a bit before that even) so I can hit the road before the second worst traffic in the country rears its head and before the summer heat bears down upon me.

But ignoring SOP for a moment, I also foresee a scenario where I may go to work in the morning, then hit someplace north of the city, then head home, which is pushing the limits of the battery to say the least. Others I may go to work, go home, bike to an appointment while the car charges and then go back and drive some more to about 75% the distance I normally drive to work. The long and short of this is, especially if I can't get a right to charge at work, faster charging is very important to me, especially when I see these NEMA16-50Rs (AFAICT) that are used to charge RVs at work. I'd be happy with a NEMA5-15R honestly. If I can charge at work, it solves many of these issues, but until a solid policy is in place, I need back-up and backup may require surreptitious charging mid-day, as well as a preference for SOP.

And did I mention my EVSE can do nearly 20kW charging. :)
Last edited by TimeHorse on Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
RIP CO2 Fre, 27 months, 42,282 mi & 11 bars.
unAmerican Job & Nissan's Rapid Depreciation cost $20,000!
5 hours on the road daily w/o Charge at Work on 100%.

Long Live CO2 Fre, Maxed 2013 SL, 20,000 mi/yr lease.
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rclams
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Re: EVSE Installation, Info and Cost Comparison Thread

Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:51 pm

TimeHorse wrote:And did I mention my EVSE can do nearly 20W charging. :)
So basically a little more than a nite light? :lol:

I can appreciate your interest in Super Off Peak charging - where are you located?

And how many miles do you expect to use your LEAF per year? Sounds like quite a few. We're leasing and have a 12k per year/1k per month "target" in mind.

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Re: EVSE Installation, Info and Cost Comparison Thread

Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:21 am

rclams wrote:
TimeHorse wrote:And did I mention my EVSE can do nearly 20W charging. :)
So basically a little more than a nite light? :lol:

I can appreciate your interest in Super Off Peak charging - where are you located?

And how many miles do you expect to use your LEAF per year? Sounds like quite a few. We're leasing and have a 12k per year/1k per month "target" in mind.
D'Oh! Fixed in original. 20W is about 4 times the Vampire power of the Clipper Creek CS-100 EVSE, and yes, I took that into account in my calculations. :) 5W it turns out isn't unreasonable for vampire power given some of the stats I've read about other EVSEs but there are no bells and whistles on the CS-100: no cell-phone or wireless connection, no touch-screen display. Just a button to start. Pretty basic. :) (Then again, never tested, :roll:)

I'm in Virginia, and what I'm talking about is Dominion Virginia Power's new pilot program for TOU rates for EVs. I need to write part 2 of the post that gives the specifics of each new rate but you can read more about them here.

The crux of it is 1500 customers are going to get this special rate, half with an EV-only second meter rider and the other with a household EV schedule. The household EV schedule would obviously put the whole house under the TOU rate but the EV Rider would put the EVSE on its own meter. Both are TOU with super-off-peak rates 1am - 5am, and IIRC, household has on-peak, intermediate, off-peak and super-off-peak rates. If you want more details I could put my but into gear and write that part 2. :)

As for mileage, I expect the average day to be about 75, 37 to work, 36 to get home, or there abouts, mostly Interstate. So pretty much a full charge given traffic and weather. I'm looking at all kinds of contingencies too. But man, having a full charge in super-off-peak is nice. I should run those numbers again to see how nice but I do recall it's not a huge savings, but it is a modicum.

Edit: Wait, I have it right here: Schedule EV (Rider) would be $451.66 / year or 6.33 cents/kWh average under 3.3kW; the EV portion of the Household bill under Schedule 1EV would be $425.33 / year or $5.96 cents/kWh.

With a 6.7kW charger: $369.89 / year; 5.18 cents/kWh for Schedule EV and $349.78 / year; 4.90 cents/kWh Schedule 1EV. So we're talking about $75-$80 a year in savings. Hard to break even for the cost of the 6.7kW charger upgrade on just these numbers but I still say the convenience of a faster charger is nice, especially when ChaDeMo isn't available at the charge site (such as a dealership).

Disclaimers: Cents per kWh assume all costs, including taxes, fuel, transmission, distribution and generation. Assumptions are 95% charge (22.8kWh) used per weekday, 50% of that each weekend day (11.4kWh), 3 & a third miles per kWh fuel efficiency, and just under 24k miles per year driven. The 95% e-fuel usage is based on the idea of loss between EVSE and traction battery as well as waste from adverse weather and traffic. Fuel efficiency is thus based on power at wall not power at battery (so I admit 3.3333 is a bit optimistic).
RIP CO2 Fre, 27 months, 42,282 mi & 11 bars.
unAmerican Job & Nissan's Rapid Depreciation cost $20,000!
5 hours on the road daily w/o Charge at Work on 100%.

Long Live CO2 Fre, Maxed 2013 SL, 20,000 mi/yr lease.
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rclams
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Re: EVSE Installation, Info and Cost Comparison Thread

Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:07 am

TimeHorse wrote:
rclams wrote: And how many miles do you expect to use your LEAF per year? Sounds like quite a few. We're leasing and have a 12k per year/1k per month "target" in mind.
3 & a third miles per kWh fuel efficiency and just under 24k miles per year driven.
24k miles/yr.! Wow!

Dude, you'll NEED 6.6kW charging! ;)

Not to mention an L3 a mile from your house next to a Starbucks!

WRT efficiency: When I drive the LEAF on the freeway, without climate control, mind you, I set 56-58 mph on Cruise Control, fire up the iPod and have an 80 mile "safe" range (with perhaps First Warning). That's around 4 miles/kWhr for freeway use. (My overall average is 4.5+, BTW.)

But when I drive my wife's commute route at 60-70 mph without cruise control (simulating HOV lane speeds) with climate control, the effective safe range drops to 60 miles (with perhaps First Warning), not including headlight use. That's about 3 miles/kWhr for "fast aka normal" freeway use.

At best, your wall-to-battery charging efficiency will be 95%, so you're at 2.85 miles/kWhr less any Climate pre-conditioning that you will do, winter and summer. So 2.75 might be a good planning number to use.

BTW, we are leasing, and I off-peak charge to 100% anytime I show less than 90 miles of ECO range, which is most days, IOW.

Nissan/CarWings needs 80%-ers and daily 100%-ers to learn as much as possible abut real-world energy use and I'm glad to do my part!

jeffc
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Re: EVSE Installation, Info and Cost Comparison Thread

Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:10 pm

I do a 50 mile one-way commute every day and i was able to install an L2 charger at my office, so i decided to have one put in at home as well.

I found a great licensed electrician that buys the Schneider Electric unit wholesale and passes on the savings. I had two units installed, total cost was just above the retail cost of the unit and the quality of work was top notch.

I would recommend to anyone looking for L2 to call these guys, Jim Antonnuci 909-855-5278

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TimeHorse
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Re: EVSE Installation, Info and Cost Comparison Thread

Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:21 pm

jeffc wrote:I do a 50 mile one-way commute every day and i was able to install an L2 charger at my office, so i decided to have one put in at home as well.

I found a great licensed electrician that buys the Schneider Electric unit wholesale and passes on the savings. I had two units installed, total cost was just above the retail cost of the unit and the quality of work was top notch.

I would recommend to anyone looking for L2 to call these guys, Jim Antonnuci 909-855-5278
I suggest unless you live in the LA area, probably not worth calling Jim since the poor guy probably can't make it out to Farifax, VA. :)
RIP CO2 Fre, 27 months, 42,282 mi & 11 bars.
unAmerican Job & Nissan's Rapid Depreciation cost $20,000!
5 hours on the road daily w/o Charge at Work on 100%.

Long Live CO2 Fre, Maxed 2013 SL, 20,000 mi/yr lease.
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unhookt
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Re: EVSE Installation, Info and Cost Comparison Thread

Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:15 am

Can we get a cost/feature comparison table going somewhere in this thread? Maybe in the OP's first message?
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