Stoaty
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Re: SAE Planning vote to formally deny CHAdeMO in US

Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:32 pm

If they had products for sale (as in the beta vs. VHS standards war), I would say this might be a reasonable thing to do. The fact that they don't means I don't trust their motives for a second.
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GaslessInSeattle
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Re: SAE Planning vote to formally deny CHAdeMO in US

Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:34 pm

I don't know about you, but I'm writing a letter to let them know how I feel about this: pr@sae.org. I recommend that everyone with CHAdeMO experience does as well.

I personally think it's a good idea to have a high energy plug be separate. Being separate, used less, it will sill stay cleaner.

Having two plugs reduces that likelihood that a failure with one will leave you SOL! If one malfunctions, you will have the possibility of using the other.
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GaslessInSeattle
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Re: SAE Planning vote to formally deny CHAdeMO in US

Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:56 pm

If anyone has some decent bullet points to add to my letter, please post them. here is my letter to the SAE so far:
"Dear Sirs,
I have put about 13,000 miles on the electric Nissan Leaf in the last year. I am disappointed at the the SAE's apparent heel dragging on the creation of a new standard for DC Quick Charging. I'm guessing I am not the only one who has noticed that DC fast charging is key to mass adoption of EV's. Your delay in providing a new standard while at the same time denouncing the only option that is now being installed up and down the west coast is shameful and suspect.

From experience using both CHAdeMO and J1772 EVSE's, I have to say that both seem quite adequate. Introducing a new standard this late in the game is unnecessary and I believe, destructive to the adoption of electric vehicles. Had you gotten behind CHAdeMO originally, it would be available in all electric cars being planned for manufacture. Instead, some of the industry is stalled, waiting for a standard when there is already a very adequate one available.

I believe having two options for plugging in is good and should simply be adopted as is. J1772 plugs are often left on the ground, introducing dirt and moisture into the contacts in the plug. There are already hundreds of these chargers in our state, which I am thankful for, but I am glad that my CHAdeMO plug is separate and gets less wear and tear.

Your proposed combo plug, dubbed the "Frankinplug" in the EV community, is huge and unwieldy and lacks the security of a back up option, should their be a charging connector failure.

WA and OR have done the right thing and gotten behind CHAdeMO since the SAE failed to provide another viable alternative in time.

I Urge you to accept that you have waited too long, to accept that CHAdeMO is good enough and reverse your decision and quickly get behind the CHAdeMO standard so that everyone can move ahead with the creation of the critical and much needed DC fast charging network nationally."
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ILETRIC
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Re: SAE Planning vote to formally deny CHAdeMO in US

Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:17 pm

1- Let's face it: ICE is fueled by 1 plug only (except diesel). So the gestalt of filling up is one fits all. And that's how it's been since we phazed out ledded gas.
2- Keep it simple is the way to go.
3- Just as we ended up with Blurays and killed HDDVD, VHS and killed beta, we will end up with one plug and kill all other. I don't know what kind, Maybe CHAdeMO only, that's for the market and the engineers to figure out years down the road.
4- Public J1772 being dirty is a very weak argument for a fast charger plug option.

These are the growing pains, folks. Personally, I have yet to plug in to a CHAdeMO or even J1772 outlet outside my house. They're just nowhere those things to be found or found available.
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TonyWilliams
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Re: SAE Planning vote to formally deny CHAdeMO in US

Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:20 pm

TRONZ wrote: It's just a way of keeping the "SAE" partners in line and not offering QC EV's. This pretty much now guarantees that CHAD will be the QC standard by default... and alot of euro manufacturers will have to break their pledgs someday.
Big hat, no cattle.

Lots of press releases, but nothing to offer except press releases. I can't think of another SAE standard that get as much press time.
Last edited by TonyWilliams on Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LEAFfan
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Re: SAE Planning vote to formally deny CHAdeMO in US

Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:30 pm

ILETRIC wrote:1- Let's face it: ICE is fueled by 1 plug only (except diesel). So the gestalt of filling up is one fits all. And that's how it's been since we phazed out ledded gas.
2- Keep it simple is the way to go.
3- Just as we ended up with Blurays and killed HDDVD, VHS and killed beta, we will end up with one plug and kill all other. I don't know what kind, Maybe CHAdeMO only, that's for the market and the engineers to figure out years down the road.
4- Public J1772 being dirty is a very weak argument for a fast charger plug option.

These are the growing pains, folks. Personally, I have yet to plug in to a CHAdeMO or even J1772 outlet outside my house. They're just nowhere those things to be found or found available.
I've been using CHAdeMO since NOV. It's as simple as you can get, and Nissan has a DCQC less than 10K. Why make things more complicated with something that could be years away and cost much more money? "If it ain't broken, why fix it?"
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TRONZ
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Re: SAE Planning vote to formally deny CHAdeMO in US

Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:48 pm

The SAE standard has the same chance of production as the ExxonMobile QC station.
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walterbays
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Re: SAE Planning vote to formally deny CHAdeMO in US

Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:27 pm

Ford press release wrote:Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, General Motors, Porsche and Volkswagen agreed to support a harmonized single-port fast charging approach for use on electric vehicles in Europe and the United States
Translation: Seven European and US auto makers declare that the Japanese quick charging standard, currently with over 1,000 chargers and tens of thousands of vehicles worldwide, cannot be used. Three of the seven sell BEV's in small scale pilot test programs. One sells production quantities of an EREV which neither has nor needs quick charging. None sell BEV's in full production, and none have announced plans to sell any BEV that can use quick charging. And no company has announced plans to build an SAE quick charger - if the standard existed yet.

My prediction of SAE's next trick: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 15#p122915

Forget SAE. Their only agenda is to slow EV adoption, and they're positioning themselves to become irrelevant to this century's automotive standards. Look instead to IEEE for formal standards for charging and other EV technologies.

http://electricvehicle.ieee.org/program.html
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EVDrive
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Re: SAE Planning vote to formally deny CHAdeMO in US

Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:19 pm

The SAE is a group of Total losers. Yes, I am comfortable throwing dirt in their faces and reverting to name calling. I think it is terrible how they consistently create unique US only standards that fly in the face of international standards and have created countless headaches for the average mechanically inclined handyman over the years. "what the heck this bolt must be metric, I only have SAE."

If they had a single plug solution in play, I would be all for it. However, all they have is an idea that is years out and a line of attack against the DC charging standard that is alive and well and in play today. They are just another group of right wing idiots on the side of slowing EV adoption. Just the opposite of what they claim. Perfection is the enemy of the good in this case and the SAE is the enemy of widespread EV adoption in the US.

I hope they prove us wrong but I doubt they will.
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kubel
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Re: SAE Planning vote to formally deny CHAdeMO in US

Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:48 pm

Sorry guys, but I'm with SAE. We need a single charge port. It's unfortunate that they aren't coming up with a replacement first before shooting CHAdeMO down though. Makes it look like they are purposefully trying to sabotage quick charging. It's like the home entertainment industry ruling out Betamax, but with no VHS to be seen.
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