cwerdna
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Nissan LEAF Death Watch

Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:01 pm

Yeah, at free L2 J1772s, all sorts of vehicles use them here in the Bay Area, including Teslas.

Other than via hokey DriveTheARC, there aren't that many free DC FCs in the Bay Area. Oddly, a few of them are at schools (of rich areas) but they're way too far and out of the way for me to even bother unless I'm passing by/thru the area and some are too slow (e.g. "24" or "25" kW) units.

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DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:04 pm
My take is that Tesla didn't see the need maybe due to low demand? which is why the T3 wasn't launched with the option and people complained so they added it. I am sure it was nothing more than a SW tweak so yeah low hanging fruit move. Its not like Tesla doesn't provide a lot of stuff that is not functional, just cute.
I doubt it was a simple software tweak, otherwise it wouldn't have taken them so long to enable it.

First "deliveries" on Model 3 (which went to employees) was at end of July 2017. They didn't enable CHAdeMO working w/Model 3 via software update until around July 2019. They probably wanted to target getting it working by delivery to Japan. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... an.166144/ in Japan got his 3 in Sept 13, 2019. That guy also received a CHAdeMO adapter in the trunk of his S before the CHAdeMO adapter was even shipping in the US.
SageBrush wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:51 pm
The Model 3 certainly had a 'to do' list when it launched. The CHAdeMO adapter was in that list from day #1 but clearly was not a priority. Our northern neighbors may have made enough noise to bump the adapter up a few spots in the queue. One way or another, the adapter is a rare bird in the wild outside of Canada
As I wrote at viewtopic.php?p=571131#p571131, the CHAdeMO adapter came standard with the Model S and X in Japan. That said, AFAIK, neither of those sell in large numbers in Japan.

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SageBrush
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Re: Nissan LEAF Death Watch

Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:38 pm

cwerdna wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:01 pm
the CHAdeMO adapter came standard with the Model S and X in Japan. That said, AFAIK, neither of those sell in large numbers in Japan.
You are right -- I forgot about Japan. So the Tesla deadline to get the adapter working for Model 3 pretty much ignored N. America and was completed in time for Japan. Makes sense.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
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goldbrick
Posts: 961
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Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Nissan LEAF Death Watch

Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:54 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:47 am
Moreover, water extinguishes Li fire so the BMS is in fact a fire retardant.
Maybe this is true in the long run but in the short term any nearby water will only make things much, much worse.

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jlv
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Re: Nissan LEAF Death Watch

Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:27 pm

cwerdna wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:52 am
FWIW, I'm in the SF Bay Area and although I don't personally know these folks, these guys use the CHAdeMO adapter w/their Teslas:
I wouldn't be surprised if most of the CHAdeMO adapters recently sold were to Tesla owners near free, local CHAdeMO stations.


Definitely not "Teslas use Chademos heavily".
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18, 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%)
Tesla S 75D (3/17, 45K mi)
Tesla X 100D (12/18, 23K mi)
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DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15061
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Nissan LEAF Death Watch

Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:50 pm

jlv wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:27 pm
cwerdna wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 11:52 am
FWIW, I'm in the SF Bay Area and although I don't personally know these folks, these guys use the CHAdeMO adapter w/their Teslas:
I wouldn't be surprised if most of the CHAdeMO adapters recently sold were to Tesla owners near free, local CHAdeMO stations.


Definitely not "Teslas use Chademos heavily".
Two years ago, they were using the EVgo's at Tacoma Mall pretty heavily. I was convinced a white S 90 worked there because he was there almost every day. There were 3 stations and a handful of times, 2 of the 3 charging were Tesla's.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
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SageBrush
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Location: NM

Re: Nissan LEAF Death Watch

Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:49 pm

jlv wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:27 pm
I wouldn't be surprised if most of the CHAdeMO adapters recently sold were to Tesla owners near free, local CHAdeMO stations.
My guess too, but it will be a case of penny wise and pound foolish:

Expensive adaptor
Slow charging, so a waste of time
Faster battery degradation compared to routine L2 charging
And cream on the cake, Tesla will count the sessions towards the max power nerf
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DougWantsALeaf
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Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Nissan LEAF Death Watch

Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:00 pm

If its a choice between stopping at the attached highway oasis at 50kW or taking a 10 minute detour to get to the supercharger, it seems any time savings in charging speed would be lost.
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cwerdna
Posts: 11149
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Nissan LEAF Death Watch

Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:29 am

SageBrush wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:49 pm
jlv wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:27 pm
I wouldn't be surprised if most of the CHAdeMO adapters recently sold were to Tesla owners near free, local CHAdeMO stations.
My guess too, but it will be a case of penny wise and pound foolish:

Expensive adaptor
Slow charging, so a waste of time
Faster battery degradation compared to routine L2 charging
And cream on the cake, Tesla will count the sessions towards the max power nerf
The $450 adapter is cheaper than getting a DC FC inlet on some EVs. It's a $750 option on Chevy Bolts, for example.

Some folks like Randy Spencer on TMC has had the adapter pay for itself already.

As for "slow", well, it's a lot faster than L2. Most J1772 public charging is only 30 amp max and often only 208 volts, so ~6.2 kW at max. 35 to 50 kW is a hell of a lot faster. My Leaf doesn't even have CHAdeMO. On both my cars, I still sometimes had been taking advantage of free L2 charging but unfortunately the free public L2 near home has become 19 cents/kWh.

As for faster battery degradation than L2, I haven't seen that quantified but some folks on other EVs haven't seen significant degradation from DC FCing. Heck, even a US govt lab tested 2 gen 1 Leafs (I think model year 2012) that were only L2 charged and 2 that were only DC FCed. The DC FCed ones were a bit worse off but it wasn't significant. Unfortunately, they tested in Phoenix, IIRC.

As for "nerfing", I don't know if it's been learned than any packs beyond the 75 and 90 kWh packs can get nerfed (https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... ly.152322/).

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Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15061
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Re: Nissan LEAF Death Watch

Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:16 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:00 pm
If its a choice between stopping at the attached highway oasis at 50kW or taking a 10 minute detour to get to the supercharger, it seems any time savings in charging speed would be lost.
This is the reason the adapter was so popular here. The SC network might have a great rep, but up until recently, I was not a fan of its coverage.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
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