GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 2955
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: First Impressions of '21 Leaf SV

Thu May 13, 2021 10:33 pm

I don't want the brake lights coming on unless I actually apply the friction brakes so I use B mode most of the time. I use e-pedal once in a while if stuck in severe stop and go traffic. Brake lights did not help me in my 2011--they were brightly lit while I was stopped at a traffic light. Unfortunately, the 3/4-ton diesel pickup driver did not bother to stop at the light.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

dmacarthur
Posts: 266
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:00 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jul 2018
Leaf Number: 306556
Location: Vermont

Re: First Impressions of '21 Leaf SV

Fri May 14, 2021 3:36 am

Count me with the ones who like tail lights in e-pedal mode- when you slow down that quickly, it is just like using the brake pedal. And, in a Leaf, what diff does it make which way you choose to slow down, even the pedal does not engage friction braking until regen is maxed out.....
2015 Leaf sold
2019 Leaf Plus S as of 9/30/19

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 16941
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: First Impressions of '21 Leaf SV

Fri May 14, 2021 5:44 am

I think that any mode that is most like downshifting to a lower gear should NOT have the brake lights come on. With ePedal the car will actually stop, so it's appropriate to have them activate in that.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
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DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15640
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: First Impressions of '21 Leaf SV

Fri May 14, 2021 6:18 am

GerryAZ wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 10:33 pm
I don't want the brake lights coming on unless I actually apply the friction brakes so I use B mode most of the time. I use e-pedal once in a while if stuck in severe stop and go traffic. Brake lights did not help me in my 2011--they were brightly lit while I was stopped at a traffic light. Unfortunately, the 3/4-ton diesel pickup driver did not bother to stop at the light.
In my 2016 which had less regen in B and no E Pedal, twice I was rearended and luckily both times the damage was very minor and hard to see if not looking for it. When I got my 2018, I started out using B mode most of the time with E Pedal being the norm on city streets but found the efficiency was lacking. B mode also had higher regen and the Plus seemed to be a bit more so now I drive in D most of the time shifting to B when anticipating a major slowdown or stop only going to E Pedal at the last possible moment.

All this, especially on the freeway has caused my followers to have a greater following distance frequently and my efficiency has gone up. On the efficiency side, it may be because of the weather as the Pacific Northwest has had a near record dry start to Spring and that continues.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
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Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 659
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

Re: First Impressions of '21 Leaf SV

Sat May 15, 2021 12:19 pm

Some impressions after using "Pro Pilot"and other advanced features in my 2 week old SV Plus with tech;
Note - if these needs moving to the Pro Pilot for elderly - feel free - I definitely qualify.

Driver assist:
Taking rather sharp cornering at above speed limits (50 in a 40 mph), I did not feel that PP would correct enough - waited to the last second to manually make the turn. Tried several times with same result. Lane markers where excellent. Somewhat scary!
Seems to keep too close to center stripe on narrow (well marked) lanes - especially with large gravel trucks oncomming! Drifting around the lane very noticeable compared to my actual driving skill (slight nudge to steering to keep straight).
When a well marked right turn lane starts, the PP steered toward the turn lane at a fairly high speed. Luckily, no car turning and had to manually pull back to main lane.
Brake assist and/or intelligent cruise? - a couple of scary incidents. Sudden braking for what is seemingly no reason whatsoever. Has happened a couple of times already. Braking for only a second or so, but fairly hard braking.
The worst incident yet was on a well marked two lane highway, a car in front was making a right turn. As the vehicle slowed, the intelligent cruise slowed me down appropriately. As it turned into the right turn lane, my vehicle continued to slow - even though the vehicle was well out of the straight ahead lane (in it's turn lane). Then, my brakes went very hard - like the turning vehicle was still in my path. By this time I was going very slow with high speed traffic (luckily) still safetly behind me, but approaching rapidly. I floored the accelerator, the car "clunked" and took off quickly. This could have been a serious rear-end if someone was following closely at all.

I've turned off the driver assist, but still use the "driver alert" option (the only two on the menu).
Has anyone had similar issues - or others that affect safe driving?
2012 Leaf SL
2021 Leaf SV Plus

knightmb
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:41 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2021
Leaf Number: 306291
Location: Franklin, TN

Re: First Impressions of '21 Leaf SV

Sat May 15, 2021 1:14 pm

Marktm wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 12:19 pm
Some impressions after using "Pro Pilot"and other advanced features in my 2 week old SV Plus with tech;
Note - if these needs moving to the Pro Pilot for elderly - feel free - I definitely qualify.

Driver assist:
Taking rather sharp cornering at above speed limits (50 in a 40 mph), I did not feel that PP would correct enough - waited to the last second to manually make the turn. Tried several times with same result. Lane markers where excellent. Somewhat scary!
Seems to keep too close to center stripe on narrow (well marked) lanes - especially with large gravel trucks oncomming! Drifting around the lane very noticeable compared to my actual driving skill (slight nudge to steering to keep straight).
When a well marked right turn lane starts, the PP steered toward the turn lane at a fairly high speed. Luckily, no car turning and had to manually pull back to main lane.
I know that some curves, PP won't do, I think I read something below a 60 degree turn and it will shut off. It works best on fairly non-curvy roads. Works fine for the Interstate, but local driving around some twisty turns, I wouldn't trust it if I didn't know the road already and how it worked in the past. I noticed the same thing, seems to keep me to close to the center line, but then I noticed that the way I drive, I tend to ride the side line and just not use to staying in the center of the lane. I think it is a matter of perspective and how the road lines are marked. If the lane is wide, it centers well, if the lane is narrow, it appears to ride close to the center, but I suspect because that is probably the "center" of the narrow lane that most of us don't notice because we don't drive looking down at the road, but we look ahead when we drive.
Brake assist and/or intelligent cruise? - a couple of scary incidents. Sudden braking for what is seemingly no reason whatsoever. Has happened a couple of times already. Braking for only a second or so, but fairly hard braking.
The worst incident yet was on a well marked two lane highway, a car in front was making a right turn. As the vehicle slowed, the intelligent cruise slowed me down appropriately. As it turned into the right turn lane, my vehicle continued to slow - even though the vehicle was well out of the straight ahead lane (in it's turn lane). Then, my brakes went very hard - like the turning vehicle was still in my path. By this time I was going very slow with high speed traffic (luckily) still safetly behind me, but approaching rapidly. I floored the accelerator, the car "clunked" and took off quickly. This could have been a serious rear-end if someone was following closely at all.

I've turned off the driver assist, but still use the "driver alert" option (the only two on the menu).
Has anyone had similar issues - or others that affect safe driving?
I do know why this happens, PP follows the car ahead even around turns (it doesn't just look straight ahead), so if a car is "turning", PP doesn't know if that car is going to stop or not, so it takes the cautious route of just almost stopping. PP won't swing around any car it follows from the camera, it's not that advanced of a driving system yet. But... if the turning car gets far enough out of view of PP, then I've seen it speed up past the car. The easiest way to tell what PP is doing is to turn on the "Cruise Screen" that shows when PP can see a car ahead of not or if it is in Drive Assist mode. Once you do that, you'll see how PP behaves with cars in front, when it can't or can see cars, is it following the car ahead of you, etc.

It's certainly a learning curve, especially when trying to "trust" the car to do the right thing. So far, knowing it's quirks, I can work with it, use it quite a bit knowing what limitations it has and knowing to take control when a situation is coming up that I know it will choke on, such as a car deciding to just make a sudden right turn out of the blue.

For real fun, trying using driver assist and keep your hands off the wheel too long beyond the safety time, the car pulls over to the side of the road and honks at you :mrgreen:
2020 Leaf SL Plus - (Manufacture Date March 2020)
2013 Leaf SV (8 faithful years of service before trade in at 75,679 miles)

knightmb
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:41 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2021
Leaf Number: 306291
Location: Franklin, TN

Re: First Impressions of '21 Leaf SV

Sat May 15, 2021 1:19 pm

To add to this, all those videos of people sitting in the back of a Tesla while it drives, you could technically do the same thing with PP and a good enough road (good markings, fairly straight, light traffic, low speeds) to make a quick video, but we all know how stupid that would be, so don't do it! :roll:
2020 Leaf SL Plus - (Manufacture Date March 2020)
2013 Leaf SV (8 faithful years of service before trade in at 75,679 miles)

User avatar
Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 659
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

Re: First Impressions of '21 Leaf SV

Sat May 15, 2021 4:35 pm

knightmb wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 1:14 pm
I do know why this happens, PP follows the car ahead even around turns (it doesn't just look straight ahead), so if a car is "turning", PP doesn't know if that car is going to stop or not, so it takes the cautious route of just almost stopping. PP won't swing around any car it follows from the camera, it's not that advanced of a driving system yet. But... if the turning car gets far enough out of view of PP, then I've seen it speed up past the car. The easiest way to tell what PP is doing is to turn on the "Cruise Screen" that shows when PP can see a car ahead of not or if it is in Drive Assist mode. Once you do that, you'll see how PP behaves with cars in front, when it can't or can see cars, is it following the car ahead of you, etc.

It's certainly a learning curve, especially when trying to "trust" the car to do the right thing. So far, knowing it's quirks, I can work with it, use it quite a bit knowing what limitations it has and knowing to take control when a situation is coming up that I know it will choke on, such as a car deciding to just make a sudden right turn out of the blue.
In this case, the turn lane and the straight through lane were both clearly marked (recently re-tarred road). The car that was turning was clearly out of the straight through lane. It was a totally straight section of road also. The PP applied serious braking when the car turning was clearly out of the path of my Leaf as I was about to pass it at a good speed - that is what really surprised me. I wish I had looked at the screen to see if it showed a vehicle, but I was looking at the cars behind me to make sure I did not get rear ended! To me, it was a serious flaw in the software - to suddenly stop in a 70 mph highway with no vehicle in the lane ahead under any circumstance. Note that I was not using steering assist at the time - this was all with the brake assist (at least as I understand it! :? I guess it's possible that steering assist would have recognized the different lanes involved?
2012 Leaf SL
2021 Leaf SV Plus

Learjet
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:04 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Mar 2020
Leaf Number: 309454
Location: Louisiana, USA

Re: First Impressions of '21 Leaf SV

Sat May 15, 2021 6:32 pm

Marktm wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 4:35 pm
knightmb wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 1:14 pm
I do know why this happens, PP follows the car ahead even around turns (it doesn't just look straight ahead), so if a car is "turning", PP doesn't know if that car is going to stop or not, so it takes the cautious route of just almost stopping. PP won't swing around any car it follows from the camera, it's not that advanced of a driving system yet. But... if the turning car gets far enough out of view of PP, then I've seen it speed up past the car. The easiest way to tell what PP is doing is to turn on the "Cruise Screen" that shows when PP can see a car ahead of not or if it is in Drive Assist mode. Once you do that, you'll see how PP behaves with cars in front, when it can't or can see cars, is it following the car ahead of you, etc.

It's certainly a learning curve, especially when trying to "trust" the car to do the right thing. So far, knowing it's quirks, I can work with it, use it quite a bit knowing what limitations it has and knowing to take control when a situation is coming up that I know it will choke on, such as a car deciding to just make a sudden right turn out of the blue.
In this case, the turn lane and the straight through lane were both clearly marked (recently re-tarred road). The car that was turning was clearly out of the straight through lane. It was a totally straight section of road also. The PP applied serious braking when the car turning was clearly out of the path of my Leaf as I was about to pass it at a good speed - that is what really surprised me. I wish I had looked at the screen to see if it showed a vehicle, but I was looking at the cars behind me to make sure I did not get rear ended! To me, it was a serious flaw in the software - to suddenly stop in a 70 mph highway with no vehicle in the lane ahead under any circumstance. Note that I was not using steering assist at the time - this was all with the brake assist (at least as I understand it! :? I guess it's possible that steering assist would have recognized the different lanes involved?
You will be ready for it next time...just press the go pedal to override the auto braking.
2019 Nissan Leaf SL Plus
Build Date 2/19...car sat new for 1 year until I purchased 3/20

knightmb
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:41 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2021
Leaf Number: 306291
Location: Franklin, TN

Re: First Impressions of '21 Leaf SV

Sat May 15, 2021 8:21 pm

Marktm wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 4:35 pm
In this case, the turn lane and the straight through lane were both clearly marked (recently re-tarred road). The car that was turning was clearly out of the straight through lane. It was a totally straight section of road also. The PP applied serious braking when the car turning was clearly out of the path of my Leaf as I was about to pass it at a good speed - that is what really surprised me. I wish I had looked at the screen to see if it showed a vehicle, but I was looking at the cars behind me to make sure I did not get rear ended! To me, it was a serious flaw in the software - to suddenly stop in a 70 mph highway with no vehicle in the lane ahead under any circumstance. Note that I was not using steering assist at the time - this was all with the brake assist (at least as I understand it! :? I guess it's possible that steering assist would have recognized the different lanes involved?
Pro Pilot definitely needs an upgrade on it's logic, maybe Pro Pilot 2 will be better? If I am in multi-lane traffic, PP seems to follow the car ahead of me just fine, safety passing vehicles on both the right and left at the same time. No issues. But...if the car in my lane, changes lanes (and slows down for some reason), PP gets nervous and starts to slow down to match it. :lol:
But... if the car I am following changes lanes and keeps the speed constant (or speeds up) and no other cars are ahead of me, I noticed that the "car" picture disappears and PP sees a clear lane ahead (speeds up or whatever if the following car was driving under my set speed).

Another way to make PP act better is to set the follow distance to 3 cars instead of 1 car for example, that extra distance seems to give it more time to make up it's mind about what it is going to do when cars keep cutting in and out of your lane ahead of you all the time. Oddly enough, PP seems to work better in dynamic, heavy traffic and becomes overly too cautious on simple two way roads with good lines following just one car. :lol:

Now, I don't know if PP is suppose to have "accident avoidance" but twice now I've had PP keep me from getting hit while running. The first time, I tried to change lanes to the right and a car ran up into my blind spot at high speed before I could get over, the Leaf did the beep flash, the steering wheel vibrated and the car lurched back over to the left so I didn't hit the car on my right-back blind spot area. The car fighting me like that was the first time I've ever had that happen.

Second time, PP was going, a truck came up on my back-right (passenger side) area and nearly hit me. PP didn't do anything other than notify me with a beep (before the truck would have hit) so I was able to lurch the Leaf over to the left a little.
2020 Leaf SL Plus - (Manufacture Date March 2020)
2013 Leaf SV (8 faithful years of service before trade in at 75,679 miles)

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