gcrouse
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:51 am
Delivery Date: 03 Apr 2017

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

knightmb wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:19 pm
gcrouse wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:48 pm I think 280 miles of range is probably the magic number for those on the fence to consider an EV more than a town car.
The magic number is always shifting. Years ago, 100 miles was the magic number (which the early Leaf could do in theory if driving around town at speeds under 50 mph and no climate control) but then it jumped to 200 miles once it was seen that an EV could just be a "car" and not require anything weird to function. Once the lack of oil changes, filter changes, belts, blah blah, became apparent, then people wanted more and more EV transportation and thus wanted to do more with it, so the magic number of mileage continued to go up. Now that EV are all coming with either +200 miles of range or some options to get you +200 miles (Plus for Leaf for example), now people want it to do more, so the magic number is moving up again to +300 miles. Hence why the Ariya will be coming out in options for +300 miles of range. I'm sure, given enough time and advancement in battery technology, 300 miles will seem like nothing because everyone will be driving a +500 mile range EV as the base. Just like everything else that gets better over time, EVs have a long way road of improvements that can be had for years to come.
I think the number shifting has a bit more to do with those who don't actually want an EV and have anxiety about the inevitable shift to something different. It was about a decade ago there was the EV Everywhere challenge and i think it was DoE that had a goal of a 5 passenger car having 280 miles of range and a 5 year payback time of cost premium up front versus the fuel and maintenance savings.

I'd still consider the 280 pretty realistic for anyone actually willing to consider an EV since that's about what my previous ICE car ranges were, although in terms of marketability versus viability I'd 100% agree. As the tech improves and battery prices drop (and have dropped) it makes it a lot less attractive to have a 100-150 range when there's similar models pushing 200-300. Honestly, i question the necessity for 500 miles of range for an average EV as charging infrastructure builds out. I'm sure even 600 miles of range is doable in the next 7 years but I'd rather see overall price drops with moderate range, but i also really can't stomach driving more than 350 miles in a day anymore.
SageBrush
Posts: 7219
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

gcrouse wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:45 pm I'd still consider the 280 pretty realistic for anyone actually willing to consider an EV
Because of winter, not as a full ICE replacement for most people.

It also depends on where you live, and the DC infrastructure. I live in NM where Superchargers can be spread pretty thin and only in the next few months will there be a CCS/CHAdeMO build-out. My 315 EPA mile range was OK but I wanted more. 375 - 400 EPA miles would work very well for me, even with the infrastructure as it is today
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. Cal
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr @28k miles. 10/21: 53.4 Ahr @ 40k miles
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2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018. Sold 11/2021, awaiting Tesla Model Y
danrjones
Posts: 1365
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

gcrouse wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:48 pm
I'd still consider the 280 pretty realistic for anyone actually willing to consider an EV since that's about what my previous ICE car ranges were,
Really? What were you driving?

My real world range on my outback is about 450 miles, at 75 mph. I can drive from my place to Flagstaff w/o a stop for gas, if I really had to.
I usually stop in Kingman for lunch and gas anyway, but the real world range of my ICE vehicles has always been 400 to even 500 miles, AT FREEWAY speed. Even my f150 can get about 380 miles at Freeway speeds (I have the standard tank), and I guarantee the Ford Lightning Extended Range won't come close to that.

I think we are quite a ways from reaching that equality in EVs, and while I don't know what the Lucid range is at freeway speeds, but I doubt it even hits 400 miles. And that's a sedan. I'm talking AWD and 4x4 SUVs and trucks.

Don't misread my words, I'm not saying we have to *have* EVs right now that hit those marks, but those are real world ICE ranges.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19
DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 3222
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

500 is the number, and I think in 5 years, 500 for under 40K will be a reality. 500 gives you well over 200 very cold winter miles, which still makes long trips doable.


Anyone else notice that South Dakota has a bunch of new locations coming?
2019 S Plus (93.1% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (90.7% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh
DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 3222
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Over 6200 Leaf sales in Europe I'm December! Wow

https://insideevs.com/news/563926/europ ... ember2021/
2019 S Plus (93.1% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (90.7% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh
BeyondBeLeaf
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:30 am
Delivery Date: 28 Dec 2021

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

As old as this thread is, I'll still go ahead and chime in. I figure that it's only a matter of time before gas prices get really out of hand. I have a gas guzzler in the garage and the Leaf gives me an alternative if/when gas prices get out of hand. For about $10K more I probably could've gotten into a Tesla, but I wouldn't have qualified for the tax incentives. Then there was the vehicle I was trading in, a 2021 Nissan Titan, I didn't expect another manufacturer to give me the amount of money that Nissan gave me on trade-in.

I think I made a solid choice. The instant torque off the line really makes the Leaf quick to most posted speed limits in city driving, which is a nice surprise. Sure, Tesla vehicles are much quicker to 60 MPH, but to about 30-40 the Leaf will give a lot of ICE vehicles a run for their money (not for the purpose of racing, but for the purpose of getting into the lane you need to from a stop, or just being able to squirt around in traffic with ease).

About the only gripes I have for the Leaf is that given how much it cost ($10K off of a Tesla), the features aren't where they need to be. My Titan would read speed limit signs and report them on the IC which made it great for keeping things at speed. Given that the Leaf is an EV, it should have tech that makes it "cutting edge", especially at the cost. Nissan could've added more features for the price, or dropped the price a little more (this goes for the SL premium that I purchased).

As a 2nd car, the Leaf is a solid choice. The Bolt was something I considered, but given that the batteries are prone to catching fire, the Leaf was the least expensive option.
LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

We've gotten a bit spoiled, so it bears remembering that for 90% of Americans, Pro Pilot and being able to pre-warm your interior from indoors on cold days are still the stuff of science fiction.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.
OldManCan
Gold Member
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:48 am
Delivery Date: 07 Dec 2021
Leaf Number: 553784

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

BeyondBeLeaf wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 2:12 pm About the only gripes I have for the Leaf is that given how much it cost ($10K off of a Tesla), the features aren't where they need to be.
I agree on some missing features. My pet peeve is the lacking of memory recall on motorized seat & mirror positions.

Having said that, I'm confused about the remark on cost. I believe one of LEAF selling points is the cost and it certainly is not in the 10K delta with Tesla range. I just priced a model Y and it comes to about $60K with the lowest cost build choices. Similarly a LEAF with lowest cost build choices come to about $30K and you still have various financial incentives ranging up to $10K depending on your state. So cost is nowhere near a Tesla. Maybe I got the comment above wrong.
2022 SL+
SoCal
johnlocke
Posts: 808
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 27 Oct 2022

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

OldManCan wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:59 am
BeyondBeLeaf wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 2:12 pm About the only gripes I have for the Leaf is that given how much it cost ($10K off of a Tesla), the features aren't where they need to be.
I agree on some missing features. My pet peeve is the lacking of memory recall on motorized seat & mirror positions.

Having said that, I'm confused about the remark on cost. I believe one of LEAF selling points is the cost and it certainly is not in the 10K delta with Tesla range. I just priced a model Y and it comes to about $60K with the lowest cost build choices. Similarly a LEAF with lowest cost build choices come to about $30K and you still have various financial incentives ranging up to $10K depending on your state. So cost is nowhere near a Tesla. Maybe I got the comment above wrong.
Comparing a Leaf S to a Tesla Y is an apples to oranges argument. Even a standard range 3 would be a stretch. Having said that, with the federal incentive (if you can qualify for it) the Leaf+ models do deserve a look. There also the fact that you can't actually buy a Tesla 3 or a Y right now. You can order one and wait a year for delivery if you want.

I do agree about the memory recall feature. It's a small convenience but it shouldn't be absent on an SV+ or SL+. Maybe on a S or S+ where you re trying to cut costs.
2022 SV+ 10/22
2016 SL, New battery at 45K mi. Crashed at 95K mi. 9/22
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County
OldManCan
Gold Member
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:48 am
Delivery Date: 07 Dec 2021
Leaf Number: 553784

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

johnlocke wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 9:24 am Comparing a Leaf S to a Tesla Y is an apples to oranges argument. Even a standard range 3 would be a stretch.
Agreed. I was merely reacting to earlier posters cost comparison between LEAF vs Tesla at $10K which I think is not a fair representation. While they are certainly not equal in any sense, a LEAF Plus (SL or SV) available almost immediately and at half the cost over a car which you have to wait for almost a year is certainly a good buy. At the end of the day for me it comes down to what I can afford and what I can get my hands on and LEAF ticked both boxes very nicely vs the other options.
2022 SL+
SoCal

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