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Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:32 am
by JRP3
LEAFer wrote: Was it made very clear that the requested price is for an EXCHANGE ***NOT*** a NEW part ?
I think if you are going through the trouble and expense of a pack swap some people might want a brand new one. They should provide pricing for both.

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:10 am
by Phoenix
rumpole wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:On the topic of Lease v. Buy

I was as surprised as Nissan was of the large number of individuals that bought this 1st generation car rather than leasing it. To me it seemed illogical that anyone would buy into a first generation highly complex electronic product that had no track record like the LEAF, knowing full well, that it would be superseded by future generations that were cheaper, better, etc...
Speaking for myself, I leased, in no small part, due to uncertainty as to how The LEAF could handle a rural mountainous region with few public charging opportunities. When I discovered how well my LEAF handled this challenge, I bought simply because the lease rate offered by Nissan was just too high. With the current low lease rates and high residuals, I would probably lease, if I were making the same choice today.
<<snip, snip>>

Knowing full well the Leaf battery is a completely different chemistry, has anyone run a Leaf to empty and let it sit for 20 or 30 minutes? Can you then get a another couple of miles?
Yes, I heard the story from a Nissan dealer that a customer ran his LEAF down to turtle or when it shut off entirely. Then let it sit overnight and was able to drive it back to his home the next day in order to charge. Caveat, his home was close enough, so didn't need a tow.

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:30 am
by DaveinOlyWA
JRP3 wrote:
LEAFer wrote: Was it made very clear that the requested price is for an EXCHANGE ***NOT*** a NEW part ?
I think if you are going through the trouble and expense of a pack swap some people might want a brand new one. They should provide pricing for both.
gee maybe i can go back to my cost estimate of $8,000. but i also estimated that price would not be available until 2014 and would be HIGHLY dependent on the price of gas which i still say will be a contributing factor in how much that battery pack will be plus i think there WILL BE a limited warranty on pack replacement that works like tires. get half the mileage from it, get half off the exchange if degradation is X %. guessing the X % will be a major bone of contention that will be resolved like any other issue of this type; $$

if you dont like the (guessing 30%) degradation exchange rule, for an extra $$ at purchase, you can buy a warranty that allows a 20% degradation exchange, etc.

other than that; its all speculation. hints that $5000 is too low means nothing if we dont know what the price is because i feel that after TN is up and running, a great price can be had

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:54 am
by evchels
JRP3 wrote:
LEAFer wrote: Was it made very clear that the requested price is for an EXCHANGE ***NOT*** a NEW part ?
I think if you are going through the trouble and expense of a pack swap some people might want a brand new one. They should provide pricing for both.
In LEAFer's scenario, the pack would be new. But there is often a "core charge" associated with the older parts that gets returned when the old parts are (a deposit, of sorts). So his question was basically one of gross vs net pricing.

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:38 am
by LEAFer
evchels wrote:
JRP3 wrote:
LEAFer wrote: Was it made very clear that the requested price is for an EXCHANGE ***NOT*** a NEW part ?
I think if you are going through the trouble and expense of a pack swap some people might want a brand new one. They should provide pricing for both.
In LEAFer's scenario, the pack would be new. But there is often a "core charge" associated with the older parts that gets returned when the old parts are (a deposit, of sorts). So his question was basically one of gross vs net pricing.
Exactly. The Roadster guy who bricked his battery (at about 2.5-3 years) was quoted $40k. It's that high because his old (bricked) battery was worthless. The BRA (Battery Replacement Agreement) quotes $12k at 7 years because the old (still useful) battery is returned.

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:48 am
by EVDrive
This is totally accurate for me. I did not want to lease an EV and have Nissan take it from me after the lease end. I was thinking, what if Nissan changed their mind.

I always thought as well that Nissan would sell a whole battery pack with double capacity in a few years and I could use the old batteries for grid storage or sell the old battereis to Nissan for a credit on the new pack. If they haven't committed to doing this, then they should. That would be a great goodwill gesture.
Nubo wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:...
The desire to own the version 1 LEAF really took us all as a surprise, and is a great testimony to the confidence that these early adopter owners placed in Nissan. ...
My impression is that it may have had less to do with Nissan than with General Motors and the EV1.

Image

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
by DaveinOlyWA
and generally speaking, the LEAF pack would still have significant value at 70% (still more power than new Volt battery) and could be used for other things (such as a battery storage for solar powered DCFC at each Nissan Dealership...*hint*) before finally being recycled again.

With Nissan now running a battery plant, they could handle the process end to end.

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:26 am
by GerryAZ
EVDrive wrote:This is totally accurate for me. I did not want to lease an EV and have Nissan take it from me after the lease end. I was thinking, what if Nissan changed their mind.

I always thought as well that Nissan would sell a whole battery pack with double capacity in a few years and I could use the old batteries for grid storage or sell the old battereis to Nissan for a credit on the new pack. If they haven't committed to doing this, then they should. That would be a great goodwill gesture.
Nubo wrote:
OrientExpress wrote:...
The desire to own the version 1 LEAF really took us all as a surprise, and is a great testimony to the confidence that these early adopter owners placed in Nissan. ...
My impression is that it may have had less to do with Nissan than with General Motors and the EV1.
+1

Although I never had an EV1, I wanted one and kept waiting for GM to offer them for sale because the lease rate in AZ was very high (no incentives). I still plan to buy a replacement battery when the time comes and use the old one for backup power at home. I am starting to look at options for charging controllers and inverters now because I am down 2 capacity bars and I want to know what my options are when I can no longer make my roundtrip commute (on the freeway at highway speeds with about 12,000 miles per year average, Mr. Palmer).

Gerry

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:51 am
by JRP3
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
other than that; its all speculation. hints that $5000 is too low means nothing if we dont know what the price is because i feel that after TN is up and running, a great price can be had
Probably not that great. The high cost is a factor of material purity, assembly process, and equipment, none of which will be cheaper here in the US. Not to mention any labor costs will most certainly be higher.

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:54 am
by JRP3
DaveinOlyWA wrote:and generally speaking, the LEAF pack would still have significant value at 70% (still more power than new Volt battery) and could be used for other things (such as a battery storage for solar powered DCFC at each Nissan Dealership...*hint*) before finally being recycled again.

With Nissan now running a battery plant, they could handle the process end to end.
The recycling process has no cross over to the assembly process, it's a completely separate endeavor. Having a battery manufacturing facility does not benefit the recycling process. Recycling lithium cells is also very complicated.