cwerdna
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Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:04 pm

TEG wrote:
mwalsh wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:we also have a phenomena where machines thrive on constant use and lightly used machines seen to age faster.
Li-Ion batteries too maybe. I bought two Toshiba laptops for my office in April. One is never turned off, and charged as needed (the one I use personally), and the other is a loaner that I seldom allow use of and is charged maybe once a month. The battery on the laptop I use is showing 1% degradation. The seldom used battery is showing 7% degradation.
I used to work in a lab which had many laptops. They came brand new with factory Li-Ion batteries, and were basically plugged in and left running 24x7, never getting taken out and run down. Within a couple of years most were popping up alarms saying that the battery was no longer healthy and needed to be replaced. That experience alone has convinced me that leaving Li-Ion at 100% for extended periods of time is not a good practice.
Yep. Might be a good idea to take out the batteries or replace them w/Lenovo laptops w/a power management applet (and setting it for longer battery longevity). See my experiences at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... vo#p225439" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. My over 5 year old T61p is still on its original battery and I can still run it for >3 hours on battery.

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mwalsh
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Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:11 pm

cwerdna wrote:



I used to work in a lab which had many laptops. They came brand new with factory Li-Ion batteries, and were basically plugged in and left running 24x7, never getting taken out and run down. Within a couple of years most were popping up alarms saying that the battery was no longer healthy and needed to be replaced. That experience alone has convinced me that leaving Li-Ion at 100% for extended periods of time is not a good practice.

Don't get me wrong, bro. I run my laptop on battery power almost all the time, except when it's charging. I don't leave it plugged in all the time.
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JRP3
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Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:32 am

As I've mentioned fully charging a lithium battery to 100% and leaving it there for extended periods exposes the electrolyte solvents to higher voltages for longer periods, which speeds their degradation. This is chemistry, the electrolyte solvents are more stable in the middle of the voltage range. One of the big areas of research is more stable electrolyte chemistry at higher voltages, which would allow batteries with greater energy density.
Now, the other aspect is that most lithium batteries do need to spend some time at higher voltages to allow cell balancing, so the key is to have enough time charging at a high SOC to keep the battery balanced but no more than that. Without access to cell voltage data it's hard to say exactly what that is but I'd guess a 100% charge once or twice a month might be a good idea.

jlsoaz
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Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:13 pm

Several things stood out:

- Nissan's sophistic (in my view) use of 7500 miles per year, rather than 12000 or 12500 (whatever the original amount was) to judge Arizona degradation on 400 users at 76% at 5 years (I believe it was). How about mentioning what the 5-year degradation projection was for Arizona users who went the original amount of 12000 or 12500? My guess is that Mr. Palmer wanted to avoid discussing that.... (and how about a bit of recognition that it is a self-fulfilling prophecy where the number of miles driven per year will decline with premature battery degradation?)

- The anti-customer refusal to fix the consent reminder. How about firing Nissan's lawyers and hiring better ones who will find a way to strike a compromise such as the other automakers do?

I guess a few other things as well.
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thankyouOB
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Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:30 am

i have been at a wedding in NYC and spent the last 5 days without access to this board.
i dont see any news from the Lurking Nissan Man or evchels on this thread or a look through the active topics page.

did we ever get a battery replacement price, the naming of the consulting members or other info?
is it in one or two threads somewhere?

as amazing as the NYC experience was, I am happy to be back in SoCal, with power and it aint 45 degrees outside.
--

and what a kick to park at LAX lot 5 alongside so many LEAFs. i did not know about or use the charging section, and saw there a string of Volts and LEAFs.
the $270 parking bill was free.
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:50 am

thankyouOB wrote:i have been at a wedding in NYC and spent the last 5 days without access to this board.
i dont see any news from the Lurking Nissan Man or evchels on this thread or a look through the active topics page.

did we ever get a battery replacement price, the naming of the consulting members or other info?
is it in one or two threads somewhere?

as amazing as the NYC experience was, I am happy to be back in SoCal, with power and it aint 45 degrees outside.
--

and what a kick to park at LAX lot 5 alongside so many LEAFs. i did not know about or use the charging section, and saw there a string of Volts and LEAFs.
the $270 parking bill was free.
hope your trip went well and VERY glad to see you were able to make it back...wondering if the trip was unexpectedly extended?

other than that; i can with high confidence state that if battery pricing had been announced that a search of active topics to find it would have been a very short one.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
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thankyouOB
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Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:09 am

extended?
for sure. original flight was cancelled. The wedding was Sunday and i didnt get out until Thursday.
it was a very interesting experience to be trapped there. I wouldnt have missed it, but i was really glad to get out when i did. it was getting chaotic.
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:25 am

thankyouOB wrote:extended?
for sure. original flight was cancelled. The wedding was Sunday and i didnt get out until Thursday.
it was a very interesting experience to be trapped there. I wouldnt have missed it, but i was really glad to get out when i did. it was getting chaotic.

well sounds like you will "recover" and ya, i would not have minded being there for the experience of it all. but HUGE difference between visiting there and having to live there. hope your sister is coping ok.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
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surfingslovak
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Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:00 pm

thankyouOB wrote:i dont see any news from the Lurking Nissan Man or evchels on this thread or a look through the active topics page.
Welcome back, I hope things on the East Coast will be back to normal soon. That said, you might want to watch the latest episode of Transport Evolved. I haven't seen too many other announcements.


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evchels
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Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:38 pm

surfingslovak wrote:
thankyouOB wrote:i dont see any news from the Lurking Nissan Man or evchels on this thread or a look through the active topics page.
Welcome back, you might want to watch the latest episode of Transport Evolved:
Hmm...not sure I'd recommend that! (Or at least, cover the screen/your ears when that American girl gets going.. :) )

There's been no actual announcement about the members of the adv group yet- I'd been holding off til the group was finalized, and there are a few who aren't. Mainly international folks, but am awaiting responses from a couple US people who one way or another seem to be affected by Sandy. There are a few nominated members from this forum on board though, so I'm excited to "out" them: DaveinOlyWa, RegGuheert, and TonyWilliams. They've all kindly been quiet to allow me to get things together (to wit, Dave in just his last couple posts here!), but given the unforeseen delays, I think it's just as good to get the conversations we can going in the meantime.

I will distribute all of the names and bios soon, hopefully in the next week. Meanwhile, I'm working with Nissan to organize the first kickoff meeting, but won't wait for that to happen before we start to establish at least regional priorities and communication plans and preferences. And happy to have threads here for adv board discussions, or however else would be useful to this broader community. And of course, private messages and direct feedback are always welcome.

Meanwhile, no news on battery pack pricing, though internal conversations about this topic and potential general remedies continue, and I've been trying to intervene on individual cases. On this too, I should have more info in the next week or so- and based on conversations so far, am hopeful.

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