DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14222
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Battery Aging Model

Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:35 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:You are referring to the dash instrument that we call the Guess-O-Meter. Please use another method to determine how much range you may have. I recommend the Range Chart that is linked in my signature line.
ronwright38 wrote:I only use the trip meter and add the guess meter to get the 55 miles

Don't add the GOM or use the GOM to determine range. It won't help us at ALL to determine if there is a problem. Thanks.

How many miles did you drive (physically drive) and how many fuel bars were left?
Ron; just to add. you do realize that the GOM stops telling you anything with about 6-8 miles range left.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 412 mi, 99.72% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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surfingslovak
Vendor
Posts: 3809
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:35 pm

Re: Battery Aging Model

Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:00 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
KJD wrote: My car does spend nights in the garage, same as you, same as Mark. During the day at work I make an effort to park in the shade. I just think the swamp cooler can keep the car cool at night when it is charging and that may help over the long run.
that might be doable as long as you are no higher than 70-80% SOC (purely a guess here) that will help to reduce the degradation although not sure how much since plenty of AZ'ens only charge to 80% and still had a lot. but pretty clear that ca full charge in heat is not good.
Image

There was an owner in Phoenix, who had an air-conditioned garage and extensive prior EV experience. This particular owner lost the first capacity bar after about 16 months of ownership. We typically get these reports after about 12 months since purchase in Phoenix. So the A/C must have helped, although it's difficult to quantify the effect exactly. This was one of the first recorded cases, and one of the earliest LEAFs. He ended up selling the car when Nissan stopped returning his phone calls, and yes, he had Mark Perry's direct line.

suwaneedad
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:34 am
Delivery Date: 23 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 6638
Location: Atlanta

Re: Battery Aging Model

Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:43 pm

This model is fantastic. So thank you for building it. I can't imagine the time investment.

As an Atlantan who put 17k miles on his LEAF in Year 1, I'm absolutely thrilled with the car and its ability to save me money at the pump. The model gives me confidence that I will be able to achieve my 50 mile highway commute at 3.5mi/kWh for at least 10 years. Til then, I get plenty of overrun capacity for evening use. I could not be happier with this purchase, even though I paid sticker.

I could lament "overpaying" a year ago relative to today's deals, but only a fool would have expected prices to stay high for long.

Nissan's biggest challenge is that only a small segment of the population are interested in "thinking about" their car and its range. Until range is unconscious as it is with traditional vehicles, EVs will be a niche thing. Let's just hope Nissan bothers to continue serving the niche! I love being in this niche!
'12 White SV (own)
VIN 16638
12/31/11

1st bar lost at 19 months, 25.3k miles :(
2nd 2.5yrs, 32.9k miles :shock:
3rd 3.5yrs, 44.9k miles :mrgreen:
4th 4.25yrs, 53.5k miles :mrgreen:
NEW PACK via warranty at 4.6 years, 57.0k miles :mrgreen:

Stoaty
Posts: 4488
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: Battery Aging Model

Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:05 pm

suwaneedad wrote:This model is fantastic. So thank you for building it. I can't imagine the time investment.

As an Atlantan who put 17k miles on his LEAF in Year 1, I'm absolutely thrilled with the car and its ability to save me money at the pump. The model gives me confidence that I will be able to achieve my 50 mile highway commute at 3.5mi/kWh for at least 10 years.
However, remember that the model is only a "best guess" based on available data from Nissan and climate data. I think it is generally in the ballpark, although there will certainly be outliers on either side.

PS Yes, the time invested was substantial. I think I spent about 50 hours on it, but don't recall for sure.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

ydnas7
Posts: 590
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:57 am

Re: Battery Aging Model

Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:54 am

If 2013 LEAF does come with a electroltye localised for US conditions, then this link may be relevant.
http://www.nec.co.jp/press/en/1110/1702.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

note well
newly developed additive agent for electrolyte solutions in combination with existing manganese positive electrodes / carbon negative electrodes.


...lifespan increased by 1.5 to 3 times....


I don't know how soon the battery aging model can find this out.

further details


http://www.nec.com/en/global/techrep/jo ... 120112.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stoaty
Posts: 4488
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: Battery Aging Model

Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:04 pm

I have done a bit more work on the Battery Aging Model (sample screen attached to this message):

--used a slightly different method to calculate predicted Gid Percent at 80% charge which I think is more correct; resulting values are a bit higher
--deleted some cells under fractional year prediction which were duplicates and made the sheet visually more confusing
--changed the percentages to show one decimal place instead of two (it isn't even accurate to one decimal place anyway, easier to read)
--added cells to enter actual Full Charge Gid Percent and 80% Charge Gid Percent under the fractional year area; the spreadsheet now calculates the difference between actual and predicted so it is easy to compare
--removed entries for time spent at 100% charge, as the model has no way to incorporate this information
--added a column for the incremental loss of capacity from year to year; makes it easy to see that the first year suffers by far the greatest capacity loss
--cells where data is entered all have yellow background; calculated values all have blue background
--the spreadsheet cells are currently unprotected; I will protect them (except the ones where data entry is permitted) when put on the Wiki so users don't accidentally change cells they don't want to alter)

Version 0.85 is available here (only in OpenDocument format used with OpenOffice, someone will have to update the Excel format if no problems are found):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/481 ... %20085.ods" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will add the link to the Wiki if no problems are found with this version.

Note: my Leaf is slightly outperforming the predictions for Santa Monica, CA although it spends about 40 hours a week in the hotter San Fernando Valley. It is currently 1.2% better than predicted for Full Charge and 2.1% better than predicted for 80% charge. It is 2.2% and 3.0% better than predicted for Van Nuys, CA. The correct prediction would fall somewhere between these two climates. There are only three factors that I can think of that might account for my Leaf doing unusually well for the climate:

--my very gentle acceleration not only causes less cycling of the battery (already accounted for in the model), it may be that more rapid discharge rates above one C are harder on the pack
--I keep the average SOC on my Leaf quite low (most of the time between 30-40%, while at work around 50-58%)
--(Edit): I also usually have fairly shallow cycles of the pack (about 40% DOD on most days)

Comments and questions welcome.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

Stoaty
Posts: 4488
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: Battery Aging Model

Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:44 pm

JPWhite has graciously provided an Excel format spreadsheet for version 0.85. I will update the Wiki this weekend with links to the new version.
JPWhite wrote:I did a conversion to Excel.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/288 ... 20085.xlsx

Thanks for continuing to improve the model!!
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

derkraut
Posts: 1517
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:39 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 004248
Location: San Diego vicinity

Re: Battery Aging Model

Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:07 pm

I just want to say that I really appreciate Stoaty and J. P. White for their contributions on this subject. You guys are the "Good Guys". :) :) :)
Derkraut
Color: Cayenne SLE, ETEC trim
reserved: 5/15/2010
Leaf del. 6/14/2011
New Traction battery installed on 7/28/2017:

User avatar
surfingslovak
Vendor
Posts: 3809
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:35 pm

Re: Battery Aging Model

Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:25 am

Image
derkraut wrote:I just want to say that I really appreciate Stoaty and J. P. White for their contributions on this subject. You guys are the "Good Guys". :) :) :)
Indeed! Great to see this update, kudos.

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