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Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:40 am
by DaveEV
coolfilmaker wrote:Nope. You just would need to have a controller set up to modify the J1772 pulse on each EVSE so that demand would match supply. With 3 days to charge all of the cars it would require less square footage of panels than the cars took up in parking space.
Great! Why don't you build such a setup and let us know how it works! Let us know how you'll be funding the project, too! Maybe set up a Kickstarter project? That's the type of one-off project that would have saved Ecotality!

Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:57 am
by davewill
coolfilmaker wrote:Nope. You just would need to have a controller set up to modify the J1772 pulse on each EVSE so that demand would match supply. With 3 days to charge all of the cars it would require less square footage of panels than the cars took up in parking space.
These were test drive events. They had several LEAFs all running test drives non-stop. They would pull a car out to QC (quick charge) it for 20 minutes, then get it back doing test drives. There was no time to use J1772, much less let it take three days to charge the cars. :roll:

Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:57 am
by Randy
Come to the 2014 Teslive event!

Along with the great sessions, outside vendors, Tesla Factory party, and Sunday morning mountain drive, we'll be demonstrating our new EV solar charging system on site at the event....

Drive your Model S from anywhere in California, and you'll be able to re-charge in the day time with the other 150 or so Teslas at the event. Power will be shared among the cars, but we're pretty sure we can provide a few hundred watts continuously for each car...Make sure you check the optional charging box on your registration (cost: $1,000 additional per attendee), and leave knowing that the event is as Green as can be....

The hotel is also offering reduced rates for those folks who will need to stay an extra night or two while your car is charging...

Have a great conference.... :)

Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:13 pm
by coolfilmaker
Randy wrote:Come to the 2014 Teslive event!

Along with the great sessions, outside vendors, Tesla Factory party, and Sunday morning mountain drive, we'll be demonstrating our new EV solar charging system on site at the event....

Drive your Model S from anywhere in California, and you'll be able to re-charge in the day time with the other 150 or so Teslas at the event. Power will be shared among the cars, but we're pretty sure we can provide a few hundred watts continuously for each car...Make sure you check the optional charging box on your registration (cost: $1,000 additional per attendee), and leave knowing that the event is as Green as can be....

The hotel is also offering reduced rates for those folks who will need to stay an extra night or two while your car is charging...

Have a great conference.... :)
Oh, for fuck's sake. It would be a huge promotion for Solar City. I'm sure they have thousands of spare panels that they could use.

Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:40 pm
by GRA
coolfilmaker wrote:
Randy wrote:Come to the 2014 Teslive event!

Along with the great sessions, outside vendors, Tesla Factory party, and Sunday morning mountain drive, we'll be demonstrating our new EV solar charging system on site at the event....

Drive your Model S from anywhere in California, and you'll be able to re-charge in the day time with the other 150 or so Teslas at the event. Power will be shared among the cars, but we're pretty sure we can provide a few hundred watts continuously for each car...Make sure you check the optional charging box on your registration (cost: $1,000 additional per attendee), and leave knowing that the event is as Green as can be....

The hotel is also offering reduced rates for those folks who will need to stay an extra night or two while your car is charging...

Have a great conference.... :)
Oh, for fuck's sake. It would be a huge promotion for Solar City. I'm sure they have thousands of spare panels that they could use.
About the most efficient commercial panels now available run 21% efficiency IIRR. Assuming ISA that's 210Wp/m^2, before any losses. The generic, one size fits all parking space as recommended by the Institute of Transportation Engineers measures 18' x 8', or just under 13.4m^2, or 2.81kW per space assuming the panels remain at normal incidence throughout the day (i.e. 2-axis tracking), in ideal conditions. In the real world, you'd be lucky to average 75% of that. Then add losses. Without running all the numbers, let's guesstimate 1.8kW average available (I'm probably being generous), so the panels can supply at most just a bit above L1 and well below even 3.3kW L2. Assuming the sun shines all day, without a cloud in the sky.

Having provided portable power at concerts and the like using solar arrays, believe me, you're dependent on the batteries. For cars, QC or even L2 just isn't an option without a battery or a grid, barring huge arrays per car.

Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:14 pm
by coolfilmaker
Yes, the batteries are in each car and can accept a charge at just about any rate....

The 2014 event will be larger. If the hotel happens to have a large parking lot with a lot of extra spaces it would be relatively straight forward. I imagine Tesla and Solar City would be willing to donate a few engineer-hours considering it would probably break a world record or two.

Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:25 pm
by TonyWilliams
coolfilmaker wrote:Yes, the batteries are in each car and can accept a charge at just about any rate....

The 2014 event will be larger. If the hotel happens to have a large parking lot with a lot of extra spaces it would be relatively straight forward. I imagine Tesla and Solar City would be willing to donate a few engineer-hours considering it would probably break a world record or two.
At Teslive 2013, there was a several hundred KVA generator running just for L2 charging. How much solar area and batteries would that take?

Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:51 pm
by smkettner
300,000w would be 1500 panels and 30,000 sq/ft

Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:47 am
by coolfilmaker
In the photos, the maximum number of Blinks I could see was 8. I don't think there were any in another location. If we give them the benefit of the doubt and say 10, that's 10 x 240 volts x 30 amps = 72 kW. I highly doubt they were all being 100% utilized.

Now on to solar. Let's say we want to use 10,000 square feet.

100 x 100 feet.

Sunpower X-21 panels are about 4 x 5 feet and produce 345 watts max.

That makes a 20 x 25 panel array with 172.5 kW of power (20 x 25 x .345).

Teslive is in the peak of summer, the ideal time to do this. The sun rose on the Saturday of Teslive 2013 at 5:57 am and set at 8:30 pm.

To be on the conservative side, I'd say that means 8 full hours of sun.

172.5 x 8 hours x 2.5 days = 3450 kilowatt-hours of energy.

That's just for a small setup. I was able to find quite a few multiple-hundred-thousand square foot parking lots nearby hotels in Fremont.

Also take into account that the factory now has 4 Supercharger stalls and that most people who went to Teslive 2013 drove to the factory 1-2 times.

Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:31 am
by DaveEV
Who's going to be crazy enough to use expensive Sunpower panels and cart them around, leaving them to sit in storage 360 days of the year? Never mind an expensive tracking system?

Surprisingly, your back of the envelope calculations are in the right ball park - if a bit optimistic because of the expensive panels and tracking system. Not to mention batteries.

Still, for annual events like this, you're going to pay a million bucks for a system that can do what you describe if not more.

You're much better off spending that $950k on a grid-tied PV system that's always producing power and using $50k for a generator and portable charging setup.