bobsfreeleaf
Posts: 166
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:55 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Feb 2013
Leaf Number: 400283
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:20 pm

"Free" Heck no. I used to think the Walgreens folks were marketing genious since I would draw about $.35 of electricity (mostly for the amusement of imagining a future where this technology is supported for something less than $.60 a KW) (blink). Anyway, I get my free $.35 of juice and in turn spend about $75 on chea pets and overpriced shampoo, just to show my support to THEM. They owe me money. And how silly of them to just shut it down, when it sits in their lot. I'm not looking for something for nothing; I thought we had some kismet here. Turns out they were just on the dole like everyone else...... Is there a vomit avatar? :?
Slate 2013 Nissan Leaf Model S, no upgrades. $219/mo lease; $15/mo charging solution
Bobsfreeleaf

TimLee
Posts: 2811
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:56 am

KJD wrote:Did you guys see this picture over at plug in cars ?
http://www.plugincars.com/ecotality-aft ... 28541.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
blink-charger-fire-620.jpg
Did Blink ever do any change outs of the power terminations block, either commercial or residential?
Note that the fire occurred on unit that was operating at 3.8 kW, 16 amps.
My original Blink had overheating but no fire and was replaced under warranty August 2012.
Does anyone have info or model # for better power termination block that should be used instead?

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

MikeD
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:14 am
Delivery Date: 12 May 2011
Leaf Number: 592

Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:21 am

TimLee: The root cause of the overheating was attributed to an over-torqued termination screw whose threads (or perhaps that of the screw receiver) were stripped, i.e. it no longer applied sufficient contact force between the wire (possibly with a crimped-on ring connector connector?) and this now defective termination screw. I don't see that this means the terminations block used was inadequate or defective. Am I missing something?

This brings up an important relevant point IMO. Most termination screws on modern electrical devices (like a circuit breaker or a receptacle) have torque specifications that one is supposed to use. I don't think many homeowners who install such electrical devices in their homes have gone to the effort to find or expense of buying a torque screwdriver (or whatever) to properly tighten using the torque specifications, or like me bought one but don't consistently use it.

Note that under-torquing can obviously result in an unsafe loose termination and over-torquing on, say, bare wire can also cause the cross-sectional area of the wire to be mashed down/reduced to such an extent that it can no longer safely carry current that it is supposed to carry without overheating. (Note for the same reason an installer needs to be careful not to nick or bend wire at a sharp angle, because it can also seriously reduce the wire's cross-sectional area at that point at which it can subsequently overheat).

If I had such a device that overheated at a termination (and I didn't use my small torque wrench when I installed it), would it be fair for me to conclude the device was clearly at fault?

TimLee
Posts: 2811
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
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Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:12 am

MikeD wrote:TimLee: The root cause of the overheating was attributed to an over-torqued termination screw whose threads (or perhaps that of the screw receiver) were stripped, i.e. it no longer applied sufficient contact force between the wire (possibly with a crimped-on ring connector connector?) and this now defective termination screw. I don't see that this means the terminations block used was inadequate or defective. Am I missing something?
...
If I had such a device that overheated at a termination (and I didn't use my small torque wrench when I installed it), would it be fair for me to conclude the device was clearly at fault?
But it was the factory screw that was grossly loose.
I tend to believe Ingineer's evaluation that the terminal block design was inadequate for the service.
I think replacement with a well designed termination block is prudent and looking for information on the right choice.
Ingineer wrote:... it was Blink's engineering that specified a crappy low-cost terminal block. It's a marginal part for 20A, let alone 30A! On top of that, it was not installed correctly.

Several people personally inspected Berman's unit, I was one of them. One of the factory screws was not very tight, and the middle one was loose enough you could actually see a gap in-between the pressure plate and the conductor. I'm not even sure it was tightened at all. I think this is what started it down a path of overheating. The overheating looks like it eventually carbonized the plastic and then an arc-over event occurred on the input side. ...
-Phil
Use of torque measuring driver is probably a good idea.
But I have observed quite a few electricians through my 45 years being involved in electrical work and have never seen one used.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

MikeD
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:14 am
Delivery Date: 12 May 2011
Leaf Number: 592

Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:42 am

TimLee: I'm not an electrician and haven't had the training and apprenticeship mentoring that are required for them, but I recognize the importance and try to appreciate the standards of workmanship embodied in the NEC and DIY home electrical guides that I have bought to inform myself. I have observed a small sampling of 1950's built homes whose wiring was clearly modified by non-professionals which make me aware of the dangers of not being sufficiently informed (or in one flagrant instance perhaps having impaired judgment by age or even dementia -- which is also important for even expert electricians to consider as a possibility in themselves before attempting a project).

I am also aware of rampant corruption and incompetence combined with authoritarianism in this country and suggest people be very skeptical of any authority and employ techniques of doubt and critical thinking when evaluating the pronouncements of anyone.

In this case, if there were a design problem with this terminations block in the residential Blink, I would expect there would be multiple posts on this forum. Seeing none makes me discount your post suggesting faulty design as the primary cause of failure.

Also I don't know why you chose to ignore (and elide) the (I think) reasonable warnings to DIYfers, even though it was not particularly relevant to your post. Most people should be interested in reasoned discourse and therefore perhaps learning something useful for themselves, and not caring about who won a verbal scuffle.
Last edited by MikeD on Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

TimLee
Posts: 2811
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Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:02 pm

MikeD wrote: ... Most people should be interested in reasoned discourse and therefore perhaps learning something useful for themselves, and not caring about who won a verbal scuffle.
I have zero interest in the verbal scuffle you were pursuing with Ingineer earlier in the thread.
I agree with his judgement on the design and I am just looking for input on how to best correct the design.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

MikeD
Posts: 704
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:14 am
Delivery Date: 12 May 2011
Leaf Number: 592

Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:19 am

TimLee: The verbal scuffle I was referring to was this one with you.

TimLee
Posts: 2811
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:28 am

MikeD wrote:TimLee: The verbal scuffle I was referring to was this one with you.
What scuffle?
You just want to resurrect your verbal scuffle from earlier in the thread with Ingineer.
All I want is useful input on the best terminal block replacement for the Blink.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

pchilds
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:14 am
Delivery Date: 31 Jul 2011
Leaf Number: 006141
Location: SoCal

Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:40 am

TimLee wrote: All I want is useful input on the best terminal block replacement for the Blink.
With only one known failure, in three plus years, of this terminal block and it being due to improper final assembly. Why are you so fixated on replacing this terminal block? I have tested my Blink at 40 amps with no overheating issues. I have the ungraded J1772 cable.
2011 LEAF, gone,
2012 RAV4 EV,
2015 Model S 85D,
Solar PV 5.25 kW system.

Valdemar
Posts: 2665
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Ecotality filed for bankrupcy and intent to sell all ass

Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:42 pm

While the terminal block does look flimsy and out of place my Blink has been rock solid for almost 3 years. I don't trust the Rema plug so it will have to go when I'm ready to pull more than 3.3kW, other than that I have no complaints.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

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