encounters w/other Leafers w/surprising lack of knowledge

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cwerdna

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Messages
13,674
Location
SF Bay Area, CA
I wish I could have a longer subject title. The title I wanted would be along the lines of "encounters w/other Leafers w/lack of knowledge about basics (e.g. GOM, Plugshare, capacity bars) and use on-board Carwings nav to find charging stations, etc."

I'll start. At http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=349448#p349448" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, I posted about a Leafer who was missing capacity bars but didn't even know about them. He knew he'd lost range and but had no idea what those thin bars to the right meant, that he was missing 2 and what that meant.

Today, I had a very long conversation w/a older gentleman at the same location. We were both charging. My original intent was tell him about the free DC FC at nearby Premier Nissan that he could use (he had the CHAdeMO port) instead.

Anyhow, he was leasing an '11 SL before and now was leasing a '13 or '14 S. He knew he'd lost some range on his '11 but he also had no idea about the capacity bars. So, he didn't know how many he'd lost before trading in his '11.

He also didn't know about us calling the DTE the GOM aka guess-o-meter. He admitted he was technology challenged (just got a computer a year ago and isn't good w/it). He has no smartphone and apparently, when he had the '11 SL, he DID use Carwings on the car to find charging stations before. :eek: I told him about how crappy it was (out of date, no crowd sourced, don't know if station is usually down, etc.) and told him about Plugshare and how much better it was. He'd didn't know about mynissanleaf.com nor Plugshare. I did discuss the weaknesses of the GOM (how it can't predict the future) and gave him my copy of Tony's range chart (after explaining it to him). He was quite aware the GOM could be all over the place.

He said he used Carwings to find Nissan dealers to charge at, if he was out and about.

He also didn't know how to reset any of the indicators (miles/kWh, avg speed, count up timer and 3rd odo, etc.) of the b&w dash display. He knew how to cycle thru the displays but didn't know about pressing and holding the right button to reset. My main purpose was to discuss the miles/kwh gauge (he knew about that), the chart, and rule of thumb of having ~20 kWh usable of capacity on a new battery, to forget the GOM, etc.

Anyhow, post your street encounter Leafers who are surprisingly ignorant/unaware of "the basics".
 
There are those like us that like to know the in & outs of the Leaf, how she ticks etc... But then we have those that just want to drive it and have fun. I've parked next other leaf owners and told them about various APPs etc. Lots of Leaf owners don't know about forums like this one.


Fred
 
Here was another weird encounter (not mine) that I was fortunately able to find:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=268304#p268304" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Back to my encounter earlier this evening, I did also tell him about a lot of other stuff that wasn't basic knowledge or that I wouldn't expect most folks to know about (e.g. gids, evseupgrade.com, etc.) I did mention to him that if you just try replacing the plug on the stock L1 EVSE and feeding into it 240 volts, you will blow it. He didn't know and was actually thinking of that and also added mention of his mentioned dryer outlet.

When at home, he currently charges at 120 volts.
 
I met a guy, while charging at a dealer, who had a '12 for a year and a 70 mile commute and was pissed off that he had to find a station in winter, but had never heard of Plugshare. Weird.

I can understand ICE drivers being clueless, but a BEV driver? But I think Nissan has designed the car to be usable by the average clueless driver, they just won't get the same level of usage out of it that a more informed driver will. At best. At worst, they'll create horror stories that will impune EVs.

The vast majority don't associate driving with thinking. They get in and go.
 
I check the Nissan LEAF Facebook page from time to time and there are frequently posts from owners - sometimes multi-year owners - who know little about the car. I usually reply linking to this site.

What this suggests is that Nissan should find some way to let new LEAFers know there is a lot of info available if/when they need it. I totally understand not wanting to gum up a sale by introducing all kinds of info about warnings and best practices - and usually people don't want to get into that detail when they are just starting. But maybe just let them know that there are user's groups that are ready to help when needed ....
 
I met a lady at a charger last winter who was telling me how her battery capacity went way down in the winter. She was saying how she could charge to 100 in the summer, but only to 70 or 80 in the winter. I was super confused until I realized she thought the GOM was the battery charge.
 
The meetings mentioned here and those to follow are all perfect examples of poor dealership training, follow thru and follow up. When a person comes to the EV world for the very first time those three things are critical to ensure a positive ownership experience.
 
One I just ran across ran in the current issue of QST magazine, an Amateur Radio magazine published by the American Radio Relay League. In it, the author, who owns a Leaf,
talks about how a 100 watt HF radio will drain the Leaf quickly and you might wind up by the side of the road out of juice... You would think that someone knowledgeable of radio would know better... I wrote a letter to the editor and set them straight...
 
Most people learn about their cars from the dealership. Enough said? I see little point in making fun of people who are trying to do good without becoming expert in the field first. I agree that the owner's manual should be read, but when said manual surpasses 400 pages I don't really blame them for not doing so. A "quick start guide" is in order.

We now return you to the crowing, bashing, and acronym-dropping. ;-(
 
I disagree, somewhat....
It's up to the person who buys or leases the car to find this forum, plugshare, and to learn about the fairly useless things that people like to talk about (gids, gom, etc).

No, "gids" aren't useless, but to the person who is going to be the 'next generation' of EV users, they aren't important. I'm speaking of the 99+% of the people who aren't driving EV yet. They don't care about how a car works, just that it will get them to work every day. Right now, they don't care what kind of oil is in their car, how to change the brake pads, and other stuff that 'car guys' think is obvious. Color of the car, and how to open the hatch to the plug receptacle is all the most people will care about when the EV car becomes a normal mode of transport. Kinda like it is for regular cars right now.....oops, ICE cars for those in the know... :D

I'd be a good example of what future owners will be like, I think...

My neighbor leased one about six months ago. I saw it in her driveway a few times. One night my wife mentioned she was contacted by a dealership through her work with VPP (whatever that is) leasing rates. We figured out that with the Georgia rebate, we'd be out only about $1500 over the two years, money easily made up with my current $100+ a week diesel commute. We decided to look at one the next day.

We went to the dealership the next afternoon. We met the Leaf salesman, first question I had was what I thought would be a deal breaker. Can I put my mountain bike in it? That answer was 'yes', wasn't easy, but it was possible. His first question was "what color would you like?". "Blue, is there a more blue color than that on (Ocean Blue)?" "No". "Okay, let's do some paperwork".

That was it... I didn't know about this forum, plugshare, gids, gom, or the differences between the chargers other than it came with a 110v charger and I could use the quickcharger at the dealership for free when the gate was open.

Some days I use the car for a 16 mile round trip commute. The other days it's a 38 mile commute when I include a stop at the mtb trails on the way home.

I charge off a 110V outlet at work, don't care if it takes all day, or if it sits at 100% on the charger for four hours. To make getting the bike inside the car easier, I removed the rear seat backs and cushion.

While I love the car, it's just an appliance to get me to work and the trails. Even if I charged at home, I wouldn't spend money on a commercial charger or an upgraded ESVE, it's a two year lease.

Other than not bothering to install a 220V charger at home, this is the kind of customer Nissan and every other major vehicle manufacturer wants. When the EV car becomes common, these are the kind of people you'll be dealing with daily.

All that said, you guys are doing a great job of helping out the new owners... just be patient, and prepare to be more patient...
 
Seeley said:
I disagree, somewhat....
It's up to the person who buys or leases the car to find this forum, plugshare, and to learn about the fairly useless things that people like to talk about (gids, gom, etc).

No, "gids" aren't useless, but to the person who is going to be the 'next generation' of EV users, they aren't important. I'm speaking of the 99+% of the people who aren't driving EV yet. They don't care about how a car works, just that it will get them to work every day. Right now, they don't care what kind of oil is in their car, how to change the brake pads, and other stuff that 'car guys' think is obvious. Color of the car, and how to open the hatch to the plug receptacle is all the most people will care about when the EV car becomes a normal mode of transport. Kinda like it is for regular cars right now.....oops, ICE cars for those in the know... :D

I'd be a good example of what future owners will be like, I think...

My neighbor leased one about six months ago. I saw it in her driveway a few times. One night my wife mentioned she was contacted by a dealership through her work with VPP (whatever that is) leasing rates. We figured out that with the Georgia rebate, we'd be out only about $1500 over the two years, money easily made up with my current $100+ a week diesel commute. We decided to look at one the next day.

We went to the dealership the next afternoon. We met the Leaf salesman, first question I had was what I thought would be a deal breaker. Can I put my mountain bike in it? That answer was 'yes', wasn't easy, but it was possible. His first question was "what color would you like?". "Blue, is there a more blue color than that on (Ocean Blue)?" "No". "Okay, let's do some paperwork".

That was it... I didn't know about this forum, plugshare, gids, gom, or the differences between the chargers other than it came with a 110v charger and I could use the quickcharger at the dealership for free when the gate was open.

Some days I use the car for a 16 mile round trip commute. The other days it's a 38 mile commute when I include a stop at the mtb trails on the way home.

I charge off a 110V outlet at work, don't care if it takes all day, or if it sits at 100% on the charger for four hours. To make getting the bike inside the car easier, I removed the rear seat backs and cushion.

While I love the car, it's just an appliance to get me to work and the trails. Even if I charged at home, I wouldn't spend money on a commercial charger or an upgraded ESVE, it's a two year lease.

Other than not bothering to install a 220V charger at home, this is the kind of customer Nissan and every other major vehicle manufacturer wants. When the EV car becomes common, these are the kind of people you'll be dealing with daily.

All that said, you guys are doing a great job of helping out the new owners... just be patient, and prepare to be more patient...



Also there is no 110 and 220V in the USA, there has not been for a very long time.
 
I am not really "surprised" given that the Leaf that 'we' know was more of a geek gadget- geeks being early adopters who tend to be largely tech savvy. As the Leaf enters more of a mass market, the average consumer is no longer going to fit this profile.

On topic though- and more regarding charging etiquette- every other Leaf driver (using the L3 charger) that I have spoken to locally wasn't previously aware that the current gets throttled at about 80% charge, so if there are people waiting for a charge, they could simply disconnect and plug into the L2 charger at that point and get the same results.
 
These kinds of encounters will increase. its the first symptom that we have moved beyond the introductory phase of EV adoption. Its no longer exclusively the hardcore greeners or EV advocates driving the LEAFs anymore. We are now seeing 2nd and 3rd hand buyers. They got one because they know someone who has one or read an article (no doubt, filled with misleading statements) about one that tickled their fancy...
 
Seeley said:
I disagree, somewhat....
No, "gids" aren't useless, but to the person who is going to be the 'next generation' of EV users, they aren't important.
....

My neighbor leased one about six months ago. I saw it in her driveway a few times. One night my wife mentioned she was contacted by a dealership through her work with VPP (whatever that is) leasing rates.
No, gids are not useless but I wouldn't expect an "average" Leaf owner/lessee to know about them since they're nowhere in any manual and we have no idea what the Nissan internal name for that value is. It was discovered by garygid. I'm talking about the useless GOM.

On both of my charging encounters, the 1st guy had and still had an '11 Leaf w/2 capacity bars gone. The 2nd guy had an '11 Leaf leased before (which he turned in early) and now had a '13 or '14. The '11 and '12 Leafs had NO % SoC display at all. They just had the useless GOM and 12 "fuel bars" + the usual estimated time to full charge.

As for VPP, see http://www.insidenissan.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
DaveinOlyWA said:
These kinds of encounters will increase. its the first symptom that we have moved beyond the introductory phase of EV adoption. Its no longer exclusively the hardcore greeners or EV advocates driving the LEAFs anymore. We are now seeing 2nd and 3rd hand buyers. They got one because they know someone who has one or read an article (no doubt, filled with misleading statements) about one that tickled their fancy...
I agree. Unfortunately, in both of the encounters I mentioned, the 1st guy was driving an '11 Leaf that he bought new. The 2nd guy was previously leasing a '11 SL and turned it in early for '13 or '14 Leaf S.
 
EVDRIVER said:
Also there is no 110 and 220V in the USA, there has not been for a very long time.

Yeah, I really enjoyed the thread earlier in the week where you proved your google-fu was strong and looked up the "official" voltages for various countries.... Hate to break it to you, with modern power supplies, 110, 115, and 120 are all the same thing when it comes to appliances like toasters and electric cars.

Since 110 is within the allowable tolerances on the feed lines, you're absolutely wrong. While the ideal voltages are listed on the internet, in the real world, where I live and work, variances happen.... today the voltage in the house is 117, what country does your look-up table say I'm in?
 
Seeley said:
EVDRIVER said:
Also there is no 110 and 220V in the USA, there has not been for a very long time.

Yeah, I really enjoyed the thread earlier in the week where you proved your google-fu was strong and looked up the "official" voltages for various countries.... Hate to break it to you, with modern power supplies, 110, 115, and 120 are all the same thing when it comes to appliances like toasters and electric cars.

Since 110 is within the allowable tolerances on the feed lines, you're absolutely wrong. While the ideal voltages are listed on the internet, in the real world, where I live and work, variances happen.... today the voltage in the house is 117, what country does your look-up table say I'm in?

Nonetheless, when referring to home circuits here, the voltage standard is 120/240V People referring to it as 110/220 are merely repeating lexicon of a bygone era; 1920's and earlier, iirc. My father used to call it "110" and I did for a long time too.
 
Nubo said:
Seeley said:
EVDRIVER said:
Also there is no 110 and 220V in the USA, there has not been for a very long time.

Yeah, I really enjoyed the thread earlier in the week where you proved your google-fu was strong and looked up the "official" voltages for various countries.... Hate to break it to you, with modern power supplies, 110, 115, and 120 are all the same thing when it comes to appliances like toasters and electric cars.

Since 110 is within the allowable tolerances on the feed lines, you're absolutely wrong. While the ideal voltages are listed on the internet, in the real world, where I live and work, variances happen.... today the voltage in the house is 117, what country does your look-up table say I'm in?

Nonetheless, when referring to home circuits here, the voltage standard is 120/240V People referring to it as 110/220 are merely repeating lexicon of a bygone era; 1920's and earlier, iirc. My father used to call it "110" and I did for a long time too.
This electrical engineer agrees. The nominal voltage in the US is 120/240. It does bother me to hear people say 110, 220, or 230 in the US, but not as nearly as annoying as one person being inconsistent and saying both "120" and "220" :roll:
 
Seeley said:
EVDRIVER said:
Also there is no 110 and 220V in the USA, there has not been for a very long time.

Yeah, I really enjoyed the thread earlier in the week where you proved your google-fu was strong and looked up the "official" voltages for various countries.... Hate to break it to you, with modern power supplies, 110, 115, and 120 are all the same thing when it comes to appliances like toasters and electric cars.

Since 110 is within the allowable tolerances on the feed lines, you're absolutely wrong. While the ideal voltages are listed on the internet, in the real world, where I live and work, variances happen.... today the voltage in the house is 117, what country does your look-up table say I'm in?

an inefficient one.

Power supplys that can handle a wide range of voltages tend to be much more efficient at the highest allowable voltage than the lowest allowable voltage.

The voltage in my house is 123v today. Sometimes it is 122v, if something really unusual is happening it might drop below 120v but if it stayed below 120v for more than a day or two I'd be on the phone to my electric company and they'd have a truck rolling to my neighborhood to fix the problem.
 
Seeley said:
EVDRIVER said:
Also there is no 110 and 220V in the USA, there has not been for a very long time.

Yeah, I really enjoyed the thread earlier in the week where you proved your google-fu was strong and looked up the "official" voltages for various countries.... Hate to break it to you, with modern power supplies, 110, 115, and 120 are all the same thing when it comes to appliances like toasters and electric cars.

Since 110 is within the allowable tolerances on the feed lines, you're absolutely wrong. While the ideal voltages are listed on the internet, in the real world, where I live and work, variances happen.... today the voltage in the house is 117, what country does your look-up table say I'm in?


Thank you for correcting my ignorance I had no idea about voltage sag and variation and really should have used the Google. I have meters on every appliance as I'm concerned if something like a toaster were to ever go down to 117. I'm glad to see we have variations and get to "choose" our office voltages. 120, 110, 220, 240 whatever or is it 208? I heard about this 208 thing but I know thats someone really far from the transformer on 240, or whatever. Who cares they are all the same 190 to 260 or 100 to 130. Thanks for setting me straight, now I can get rid of all those meters.

Which thread where I looked up official voltages? Link please....
 
.[/quote]
This electrical engineer agrees. The nominal voltage in the US is 120/240. It does bother me to hear people say 110, 220, or 230 in the US, but not as nearly as annoying as one person being inconsistent and saying both "120" and "220" :roll:[/quote]


Clearly you don't understand that you can have 120V and 220V because 220 is the combination of one 120V leg and one 100V leg. When we speak of voltage here in the US we are clearly metering each leg voltage independently and combined. When I buy an outlet I do find it challenging to get the correct voltage rating since so many people have solar in my neighborhood and my voltages vary so much. I have a large assortment of outlets I switch daily and I often even get commercial rates when I cross the 208 mark at night with the large voltage sag from my determined voltage average. I wish there were an easier way like one voltage other counties enjoy. Please understand the "pick your voltage" rule when stating "your" voltages. :roll:
 
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