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TonyWilliams
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Location: San Diego
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Re: Early Adopter Mistake - Running on Empty

Fri May 29, 2015 3:33 pm

Leafer77 wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:1) I'm going to guess that you didn't opt out of the class action, which would allow you to sue for the faulty battery (Nissan really played this well to protect themselves).

No, I didn't Opt out. I was hoping I would be covered with the 60,000 miles.

2) How much is still owed on the car?
One years worth of payments. Ironically, about the same cost of a new battery.
Ok, so you owe about $6000, and the car needs a $6000 battery. Please confirm that your car is OVER 60,000 miles?

I wouldn't waste any time fighting them. It's time for a simple decision making process:

********

A) keep car, pay a total of $12,000 over one year for a car that will likely meet your expectations for the next 3-5 years

B) trade in car on a new one. You will certainly be able to get $6000 out of a trade in, so that's easy.


********

I personally would pick "B", because for the same $12,000, you can pay $333 for the next 36 months on a lease of a BRAND NEW car, with a NEW BATTERY, new tires, new 12 volt battery, et al.

Plus, still get a nice $2500 check in the mail from the state of California.

Unless you have some emotional attachment for this one, get a new 2015 (or better, wait for the 2016 LEAF, released 7 Sept 2015 with a 30kWh battery).

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Sondy132001
Gold Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:38 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 016225
Location: Mission Viejo, CA

Re: Early Adopter Mistake - Running on Empty

Fri May 29, 2015 3:44 pm

I did my homework and was so excited I got my "used" new to me 2012 Leaf this year until I read this thread, now I am kind of sad and feel like an ass. My husband kept saying don't do it but I told him it's a great deal blah blah, yeah well jokes on me.

Thanks for the suggestions Tony, trading it in on a new one, I was hoping to get 4 years out of this baby and hoping that Elon came out with a bitchen new more mileage battery I could buy for under $5k, I'll keep my fingers crossed !

(side note: my parking garage told me that in January 2016 they'll be installing a charging station, let's all hope).
2012 Nissan Leaf SL with QC 23,362 miles as of 3/5/15 Cayenne Red Mission Viejo, CA

Lost my 4th bar @ 49,474 miles 11-19-17

Leafer77
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:38 pm
Delivery Date: 31 May 2011
Leaf Number: 3713

Re: Early Adopter Mistake - Running on Empty

Fri May 29, 2015 4:03 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
Leafer77 wrote:
TonyWilliams wrote:1) I'm going to guess that you didn't opt out of the class action, which would allow you to sue for the faulty battery (Nissan really played this well to protect themselves).

No, I didn't Opt out. I was hoping I would be covered with the 60,000 miles.

2) How much is still owed on the car?
One years worth of payments. Ironically, about the same cost of a new battery.
Ok, so you owe about $6000, and the car needs a $6000 battery. Please confirm that your car is OVER 60,000 miles?

I wouldn't waste any time fighting them. It's time for a simple decision making process:

********

A) keep car, pay a total of $12,000 over one year for a car that will likely meet your expectations for the next 3-5 years

B) trade in car on a new one. You will certainly be able to get $6000 out of a trade in, so that's easy.


********

I personally would pick "B", because for the same $12,000, you can pay $333 for the next 36 months on a lease of a BRAND NEW car, with a NEW BATTERY, new tires, new 12 volt battery, et al.

Plus, still get a nice $2500 check in the mail from the state of California.

Unless you have some emotional attachment for this one, get a new 2015 (or better, wait for the 2016 LEAF, released 7 Sept 2015 with a 30kWh battery).
Yes, the car was at about 61,150 miles when the 4th bar dropped. I'm close to 67,000 miles now but like I previously mentioned, I'm at Low Battery Warning for my 30 mile one-way commute.

Thanks for the suggestions. My first car was a Nissan 280ZX and I really liked the idea of the Leaf being made by Nissan, since I considered them a good car company. A car is a major investment for a family. I will NEVER buy another Nissan vehicle because of this issue situation. This is purely an emotional decision, but they have wronged me and my family.

I plan to drive my Nissan Leaf up and down Highway 15N/15N until I can't anymore. After that, with some luck maybe I'll have better options than the two you listed above. I'm hoping by then other early adopters will be speaking with me.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Early Adopter Mistake - Running on Empty

Fri May 29, 2015 4:17 pm

It's just not wise to treat a HUGE corporation like a person "who wronged you". They don't care.

If the LEAF works for you, that would be the decision. If not, trade it in. It's silly to keep driving, because there's absolutely no financial reason to do so (as I proposed above). You're just torturing your good judgement!!!

If you don't want another Nissan, buy the Kia Soul EV (over 100 freeway miles range). It comes with CHAdeMO quick charge port. I recommend it. I also recommend the LEAF.

The GM / Chevy Spark EV is a tiny car, the BMW i3 is maybe more expensive, and the Mercedes B-Class ED is a real cream puff (well over 100 freeway miles with "extended range").

Please, PLEASE, trade in your car for something above and make $333 payments on a NEW CAR with SAFE, adequate range for you and your family. Why put them in a compromised situation? You can easily chose to fix this.

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TonyWilliams
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Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:48 am
Location: San Diego
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Re: Early Adopter Mistake - Running on Empty

Fri May 29, 2015 4:45 pm

Please go find one of these AMAZING deals (we have the B-Class ED, and I can tell you, it's an entirely different world from the LEAF)

*********

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicles/ ... ystyle-EDV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All cars have Tesla drivetrains with 36kWh battery

Current offers:

2014 - Mercedes B-Class ED

$199 for 36 months
$3000 down

*******

2015 - Mercedes B-Class ED
Range extender standard

$319 for 36 months
$3000 plus tax, blah, blah

KillaWhat
Posts: 866
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:15 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Mar 2012
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania

Re: Early Adopter Mistake - Running on Empty

Fri May 29, 2015 5:02 pm

If I hit 55K Miles, and still need to lose a bar, I'm going to park in my neighborhood body-shop heat booth at night, only DCQC, drain the battery to turtle every night with my inverter, and see if I can't beat the system.

They made the rules.

I had faith in them.
Black SL Delivered 3/14/2012
7.2Kw Charging w/Brusa
Leather Interior
Rosewood Dash
JUKE 17" Wheel Upgrade w/225-45-17 Michelin MXM4 Tires
Horn Upgrade
Infinity 63.9i Speaker Upgrade
WattsLeft Meter System
LED High Beams
Carkit NAV Override

eloder
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:55 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Jan 2015

Re: Early Adopter Mistake - Running on Empty

Fri May 29, 2015 5:04 pm

davewill wrote:It's really simple. Those early batteries were lemons, pure and simple. They didn't even come close to Nissan's grand pronouncements made during the time before the car was released. When degradation reared it's ugly head and Nissan unveiled the capacity warranty, many of us complained it was insufficient, and should have been a longer (8yr/100k), prorated thing instead, but we were ignored.

The upgrade to the lizard battery would probably be all right, but we won't really know how those batteries are doing for another couple of years...I for one wasn't willing to take Nissan's word for it again, and took advantage of having leased, and switched horses. I had really wanted to buy, but talked myself into the lease at the last minute. Best decision I could have made.
The batteries were perfectly fine--they're extremely similar to many other lithium ion cells used in a number of other EVs out there.

No active temperature management control is the big factor. The same thing happens to cell phone battery degradation in warm v. cooler climates (for those who use their phones often out of AC environments).

I'm skeptical lizard will do much better, because there's not much you can do to break the laws of physics with our current battery tech.
2015 red Leaf S w/ Quick Charge
Central Ohio

Valdemar
Posts: 2625
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Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Early Adopter Mistake - Running on Empty

Fri May 29, 2015 5:12 pm

Once I read the OP I felt right at home in this thread :) I'm in the same situation more or less, but I have access to charging at work and on the way so I can keep the car in theory until it drops to 40 mile range or less, then we'll see. Right now I can still make my 60 mile commute on a full charge returning home at VLBW.

Edit: 40 miles seems to be too low for a recent 4 bar loss. What speed are you driving at, and do you have any significant climbs on your commute?
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

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TonyWilliams
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Re: Early Adopter Mistake - Running on Empty

Fri May 29, 2015 5:48 pm

eloder wrote:
davewill wrote:It's really simple. Those early batteries were lemons, pure and simple. They didn't even come close to Nissan's grand pronouncements made during the time before the car was released. When degradation reared it's ugly head and Nissan unveiled the capacity warranty, many of us complained it was insufficient, and should have been a longer (8yr/100k), prorated thing instead, but we were ignored.

The upgrade to the lizard battery would probably be all right, but we won't really know how those batteries are doing for another couple of years...I for one wasn't willing to take Nissan's word for it again, and took advantage of having leased, and switched horses. I had really wanted to buy, but talked myself into the lease at the last minute. Best decision I could have made.
The batteries were perfectly fine--they're extremely similar to many other lithium ion cells used in a number of other EVs out there.

No active temperature management control is the big factor. The same thing happens to cell phone battery degradation in warm v. cooler climates (for those who use their phones often out of AC environments).

I'm skeptical lizard will do much better, because there's not much you can do to break the laws of physics with our current battery tech.
Let's not rehash the battery specifics here. Nissan has bigger issues than just temperature control... they actually changed the anode to the same patented one that GM is using in the Volt (Gen 1).

So, it's more than just chemistry. The batteries weren't "perfectly fine".
Last edited by TonyWilliams on Fri May 29, 2015 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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abasile
Posts: 1922
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Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2011
Location: Arrowbear Lake, CA

Re: Early Adopter Mistake - Running on Empty

Fri May 29, 2015 6:15 pm

My 2011 LEAF is at 55K miles and 49 months of ownership, and it just lost its second capacity bar. In a recent survey response to Nissan, I indicated that I would be less likely to purchase another Nissan because of their inequitable handling of the 2011+ battery degradation issue, and I do feel for those like the OP who barely missed the warranty cutoff.

However, I would not be able to bring myself in good conscience to go out of my way to abuse my LEAF's battery, especially considering that a large factor in my purchase of this car was environmental stewardship. I feel that I should be trying to get as much use out of this battery as I reasonably can. Considering that I just used this car to take my family camping on a trip to Joshua Tree National Park, it still has some life left. Sure, I could attempt to rationalize abusing the battery, but it's just not worth it to me. Besides, losing two more bars in less than a year, while putting on no more than another ~4K miles, is nothing to laugh at.

My wife supports my desire to purchase a Tesla, but only after our family has attained certain financial goals, such as upping our college savings and others. I am fine with that, and will stay focused on the positive steps that I can take. Perhaps we'll have a Tesla next year, if all goes well. Then the LEAF will truly become a local-only car.
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

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