User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4719
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: Leafy totaled :(

Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:13 pm

I keep wondering in cases like this where the other driver was at fault and is collectable why you have to "settle" for whatever the insurance company offers. Your property was damaged through someones negligence, seems they should be accountable for making you whole. To me that would mean whatever it costs to replace your vehicle with something comparable, and frankly something for your trouble.

Seems like in order to get fair compensation for damage to property (your car) you need to pursue it with a personal injury attorney from that angle.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

Valdemar
Posts: 2628
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Leafy totaled :(

Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:30 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:Seems like in order to get fair compensation for damage to property (your car) you need to pursue it with a personal injury attorney from that angle.
Maybe. Using personal injury attorney is another name for insurance fraud in 50% of the cases if not more. Thankfully no one was injured here, so I guess if I can get a more or less fairly compensated for the property damage I'll just file it under "S**t happens". Also, for better or worse, my insurance is actually paying for it, and they will bill the other side once we settle. It won't cause a rate increase as it is not our fault.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4719
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: Leafy totaled :(

Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:06 pm

Valdemar wrote:Maybe. Using personal injury attorney is another name for insurance fraud in 50% of the cases if not more. Thankfully no one was injured here, so I guess if I can get a more or less fairly compensated for the property damage I'll just file it under "S**t happens". Also, for better or worse, my insurance is actually paying for it, and they will bill the other side once we settle. It won't cause a rate increase as it is not our fault.
Kudos for having some principles, seeing all the PIA billboards and TV ads one might wonder if you're a vanishing breed.

This may vary from state to state but I've been advised in such situations if fault is not in question and the at fault party has a reputable insurance company it may be better to work directly with them rather than going through your own company and having them subrogate the claim. For one thing you won't be out the deductible while you're waiting for it be processed, and they may be responsive to requests for things like a loaner car (where you might not even have that coverage on your own policy), having the car repaired at a shop of your choosing, etc. I've almost sensed they were trying to keep me happy in hopes I wouldn't sue... which I didn't either.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

Valdemar
Posts: 2628
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Leafy totaled :(

Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:39 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote: This may vary from state to state but I've been advised in such situations if fault is not in question and the at fault party has a reputable insurance company it may be better to work directly with them rather than going through your own company and having them subrogate the claim. For one thing you won't be out the deductible while you're waiting for it be processed, and they may be responsive to requests for things like a loaner car (where you might not even have that coverage on your own policy), having the car repaired at a shop of your choosing, etc. I've almost sensed they were trying to keep me happy in hopes I wouldn't sue... which I didn't either.
I wouldn't even call my own insurance but it was my wife who understandably freaked out and rushed it while I was away on a trip and she couldn't call me. In the end I think it worked out alright, kudos to Auto Club, they were super responsive, and the deductible was quickly waived once the other side accepted liability.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

User avatar
walterbays
Forum Supporter
Posts: 1209
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:41 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Leafy totaled :(

Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:00 pm

So sorry Valdemar!

This is exactly the situation I've been wondering about. Are people with older Leafs who are getting battery replacements keeping their comprehensive and collision insurance or going self insured? And what's your reasoning?

I'm close to missing out on Nissan's battery "warranty" (or battery lottery), at which point it makes sense for me to spend around $6k to buy a new battery and have essentially the same as a brand new $36k car since the only things that wear are battery, tires, and seat covers. BUT, the book value of my old car is a bit under $6k and once I install a $6k battery the book value will still be exactly the same. Sure, if selling to a knowledgeable private party that would be a point to haggle the price a few hundred dollars, but book value still does not take into account the age of the single biggest wear component of the car.

So what happens in event of a collision? Even a relatively minor collision could easily do $3k to $5k damage. http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopne ... mper-tests . I suppose if you have a $3k crash, insurance will pay $3k to put your car back like new. But if you have a $6k crash they'll probably declare the car totalled and give you $6k to pay towards your $36k replacement.

So is it worth paying insurance premiums to cover $6k of car value, with an additional $6k of battery value going uninsured, and with replacement cost of $36k? Or is it better to self insure the first $6k since you must self insure the remaining $6k or $30k anyway?

QueenBee
Posts: 1564
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:14 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 2062
Location: Bellevue (Seattle), WA

Re: Leafy totaled :(

Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:36 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:I keep wondering in cases like this where the other driver was at fault and is collectable why you have to "settle" for whatever the insurance company offers. Your property was damaged through someones negligence, seems they should be accountable for making you whole. To me that would mean whatever it costs to replace your vehicle with something comparable, and frankly something for your trouble.

Seems like in order to get fair compensation for damage to property (your car) you need to pursue it with a personal injury attorney from that angle.
You definitely don't have to accept what they offer. For example in my accident the other person's insurance company tried to tell me that I could still drive my car while they figured out what they wanted to do (got rear ended twice in a Seattle snow "storm") and when I told them that the tail light was broken he said I could just use hand signals. I called my broker to see if there that was absurd as I thought it was and they told me it was. So I called him back and told him no that was not going to work and is not acceptable at which point there was no problem getting a rental car. I thought this was going to be a sign of what I had coming but fortunately they offered way more than I thought the car was worth and considering the damage to the car (completely drivable with a new tail light but rear fender and rear door scratched up) their salvage price was reasonable so it all worked out. But in preparing I had started my own valuation based being properly maintained, etc.

Unless they are really being uncooperative I really don't think you need an attorney considering there are no injuries and the dollars are pretty low.

Valdemar
Posts: 2628
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Leafy totaled :(

Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:45 pm

walterbays wrote: So what happens in event of a collision? Even a relatively minor collision could easily do $3k to $5k damage. http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopne ... mper-tests . I suppose if you have a $3k crash, insurance will pay $3k to put your car back like new. But if you have a $6k crash they'll probably declare the car totalled and give you $6k to pay towards your $36k replacement.
I believe they will total the car if the cost of estimated repairs exceeds 75% of the market value. You replacement cost is for an equivalent used car, not brand new. There are several Leafs with new batteries listed by private parties for $11-12k in my area, I suspect this is the ceiling of what the insurance will offer for my car. Their initial valuation is $9k which I think is more than fair for a car with an original battery as there are several 2011 cars in my area with significantly less mileage than mine that can be had for less than $8k, sounds like you'll at least be missing $3k in battery costs if purchased out of pocket should the car be totaled, possibly more.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

Valdemar
Posts: 2628
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:32 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Sep 2011
Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Leafy totaled :(

Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:55 pm

QueenBee wrote:Unless they are really being uncooperative I really don't think you need an attorney considering there are no injuries and the dollars are pretty low.
Plenty of otherwise uninjured drivers develop "neck" and "back pain" following an accident, and use attorneys and doctors to defraud insurance companies based on "medial expenses", this is a standard scheme. I'm not judging, just stating the fact.
'11 SL, totaled
-1CB@33k/21mo, -2CB@53k/33mo, -3CB@68k/41mo, -4CB(41.5AHr)@79k/49mo, -5CB(38.85AHr)@87.5k/54mo
-0CB(66.14AHr)@87.5k/54mo (BBB), -1CB(53.92Ahr)@140k/29mo,
51.1AHr, SOH 80%, 150k miles

9kW Solar

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 2289
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Leafy totaled :(

Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:05 pm

I had a similar situation to what Valdemar is facing last year. The other driver's insurance company offered a low-ball settlement and then stopped paying for a rental car when I told the adjuster my car was worth more because it had a new battery. I fought with the insurance company, talked with the State of AZ Insurance Department for possible assistance, and ultimately just kept fighting with the othe driver's insurance company until I finally got them up to somewhere close to what it would have cost me to replace the 2011 with a comparable car. I considered using an attorney, but (at least in AZ) attorneys are not interested in taking a case unless there are injuries. Since the crash was not my fault, I expected to be "made whole" and have my legitiment expenses covered, but I found out by researching case law in AZ that is not the case. If I had been injured, my expenses and lost time would have been fully reimbursable. With no injury, I had to really argue with the insurance company to get reimbursed for damaged (or lost) tools and I could not recover personal expenses related to the crash (such as time away from work to go to the shop to remove personal items from the car and the extra cost of gasoline over electricity until I got a permanent replacement car). The insurance company's appraisal form was not designed for electric cars so they listed a new motor on the form to enter a value for the new battery. In addition to this, the insurance company's storage yard trashed the car. I considered buying the car back and converting it to a small flatbed, but when I went to look at it and take photos for my records I discovered they had trashed the interior and damaged the front of the car. This damage explains why my insurance company adjuster came back with a low appraisal when I asked if my company would offer more.

Gerry
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL+ purchased 8/10/2019

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4719
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: Leafy totaled :(

Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:07 pm

Stories like that illustrate why maybe you want to at least plant the seed that you're going to pursue a personal injury claim just in hopes of getting a fair shake on the damage to your property.
With all the distracted driving and PAI promotion things are only getting worse. Insurance has already become the biggest expense in owning and operating cars for me and we have unblemished records. I fully expect at some point to give up driving not because of age, senility, or high gas prices, but rather because of the cost of insurance is simply too burdensome.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

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