TaylorSFGuy
Posts: 191
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:32 pm
Delivery Date: 13 May 2011
Leaf Number: 1561
Location: Kent, Washington

Re: 150,000 Miles on my original battery 2011

Fri May 20, 2016 1:02 pm

rexki wrote:Congrats and Hard work since October only averaging 46 miles/day if you drove only 4 months of the eight due to cold weather/range degradation.

The savings for you of driving an average of 91 miles per day between delivery and 10/1/2015 is amazing!!

ICE at 24 mpg and 3.50/gallon comes to a savings of (150,000 / 24 * $3.50 = $21,875) versus electricity of 3.5 cents per mile - savings 21,875-5,250 = $16,625

Add 5 years of oil changes at $35/pop - savings = 700

Add 2 transmission oil flushings - savings = 360

Add 1 brake service savings = 400

Add 3 engine coolant flushings = 240

Add 1 tire change savings = 700

Add 5 years of other service crap of an ICE,( mufflers H2O sensors, EGR valve, etc, etc, etc) = 1,250 (very conservative)

Total savings with the Leaf = $20,275 or $0.135 per mile
Thank you for this very clear information. My situation is slightly different (replaced a car getting 30MPG and electricity is less). So your top line comes to $13,500 and I did swap tires once. So I am still sitting North of $0.10 savings per mile. No matter how you slice it, I did save on the operational costs of EV vs. ICE. It probably makes up for the higher depreciation of EV vs. ICE. A second battery would push it over easily.

Everything about the car has held up well except I can't drive it far enough. Just like your cell phone - it doesn't last for the day so you have to plug it in more and more often to get through the day.
Mileage as of May 19, 2016 is 150,000 - 147 GID at 100%

Ordered Jan. 21, 2011 Delivered May 13, 2011

Number of months with highest mileage on Carwings - 23

First LEAF to 100,000 Miles in USA if not worldwide
First non commercial LEAF to 150,000 Miles

User avatar
DaveEV
Posts: 6246
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: San Diego

Re: 150,000 Miles on my original battery 2011

Fri May 20, 2016 1:18 pm

TaylorSFGuy wrote:Everything about the car has held up well except I can't drive it far enough. Just like your cell phone - it doesn't last for the day so you have to plug it in more and more often to get through the day.
How is your '14 holding up in comparison to the '11?

I would imagine that even with a 65 mile commute, if you had the new 30 kWh battery, that'd be enough to get you well beyond 100k miles without having to charge on the way. If it turns out to be more durable as the warranty suggests, it would probably get you well beyond your 250k mile target for a vehicle.

aventineavenue
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:58 am

Re: 150,000 Miles on my original battery 2011

Sat May 21, 2016 5:37 am

Hi Steve,

2 questions:

1) What do you think is the primary cause of the advanced degradation, multiple QCs per day, charging to 100%/draining below 10%, parking in the heat, driving fast, or something else?

2) Did the battery temperature indicator (a helpful feature I think all EVs should have) frequently indicate this risk when driving, charging, parked on a hot day, etc?

Thanks in advance!

Mark

dhanson865
Moderator
Posts: 1498
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:12 am
Leaf Number: 16156
Location: Tennessee

Re: 150,000 Miles on my original battery 2011

Sat May 21, 2016 7:50 am

aventineavenue wrote:Hi Steve,

2 questions:
Have you looked at http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Real ... acity_Loss ?

It's pretty clear that Heat and Time are the primary factors.

TaylorSFGuy lost bar 5 at 50 months 141,000 miles
91040 lost bar 5 at 50 months 101,200

Hobbyguy lost bar 5 at 43 months 65,000 miles
TickTock lost bar 5 at 41 months 44,241 miles

Mileage aka charge cycles really don't matter for most of us because heat is so overwhelming a factor. Maybe for those in the pacific northwest and Canada it becomes a noticeable factor but if you live anywhere that gets hot that's the biggest factor.
Blue 2012 Leaf 195/65/15 tires, 15" Rims
Silver 2012 Leaf 16" stock wheels
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index. ... acity_Loss
(efficiency 3.x KW vs 6.x KW)
please join Truedelta.com and input your repairs.

rexki
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri May 03, 2013 11:49 am
Delivery Date: 30 Dec 2014
Leaf Number: 316107
Location: Chicago Area

Re: 150,000 Miles on my original battery 2011

Sat May 21, 2016 8:13 am

I would have to take issue with the Moderator from Tennessee - http://www.bestplaces.net/climate/city/washington/kent - The high July temperature is below the US average of 86.5 - Kent Washington is 78.

Heat appears not to be the issue but I do not live in Kent WA nor does the moderator. Unless the car is airlifted the majority of its days on a C-130 transport to Phoenix AZ then I would put that to rest.

Cycles are the ultimate killer after excessive temperature exposure. A perfect battery in perfect conditions - its biggest "normal" enemy are cycle counts below 20% dept of discharge (DOD) - PERIOD!!

The 150,000 mile car averaging 91 miles per day through October 2015 and likely higher per day in first 4 years would have daily gone past 20% DOD. Most Li batteries don't make 600 cycle counts to 50% capacity - much less 1,825 (5*365). This tells me the owner is a master of batteries to make it this far and still be above 50% - with what I would expect 30-40% capacity in perfect conditions.
2015 Leaf SL - GMSilver - Mfg:11/14 - AV-EVSE-RS 6.6kw - 19,200 miles - 285 gids 95.38% 63.04Ahr - 4.029m/kwh - Data:1/23/16
2006 Honda CNG GX - blue - PZEV - 50 mpg
2001 Honda Odyssey EX Van - green - I rebuilt engine and trans - oily carbon mess!!

aventineavenue
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:58 am

Re: 150,000 Miles on my original battery 2011

Sat May 21, 2016 9:34 am

dhanson865:

I forgot to include calendar aging as a factor to consider; are there any examples of 4-5+ year old LEAFs (in mild climates) that have not yet lost a single battery bar, whether they have high (>50k) or low mileage?

User avatar
jhm614
Posts: 920
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:48 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Mar 2011
Leaf Number: 000493
Location: Arlington, TX

Re: 150,000 Miles on my original battery 2011

Sat May 21, 2016 10:01 am

Steve-

Congrats on hitting the 150,000 milestone! From a dollars and cents stand-point, it looks like the leaf was a winner.

I guess my question is, "Would you do it again" or maybe better yet "What are your future plans? Keeping the Leafs? Upgrading to Leaf 2.0? Going to a different EV? Going back to ICE or PHEV?"

J.
2011 Brilliant Silver SL - 110,000 gasoline free miles so far.
4BL: 06/29/13 @ 27 months, 43,520 miles, 42.56 Ahr. New 12 bar battery: 09/09/13
4BLx2:12/31/16 @ 69 months, 99,475 miles, 42.99 Ahr.

NissanLeafCamper
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 1:46 pm
Delivery Date: 01 May 2013
Location: Los Angeles California

Re: 150,000 Miles on my original battery 2011

Sat May 21, 2016 12:34 pm

:D

Congrats and great to see you here. I read the article that was published about your journey it was awesome. I was a little bummed hearing about the big depreciation loss with the leaf and wondered how that played out against the savings plus maintenance costs ice vs ev.

I'm curious you mentioned needing to change the tires once, or rotate? Were there any other maintained costs? Break Pads? Rotors? Is the A/C Unit still working? Break Fluid? Any other repairs? I just wonder how well the leafy has hold up in that sense :).

Sorry to hear you won't be continuing the journey. SHAME on nissan for not handing you out a new battery or some sort of help with the 14 leaf to keep your 11 with perks. Bad bad bad.

BernieTx
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:39 am
Delivery Date: 21 Feb 2015
Location: Austin, Tx

Re: 150,000 Miles on my original battery 2011

Sun May 22, 2016 1:28 am

rexki wrote: ,,, The high July temperature ... Kent Washington is 78.

Heat appears not to be the issue ... Cycles are the ultimate killer after excessive temperature exposure. A perfect battery in perfect conditions - its biggest "normal" enemy are cycle counts below 20% dept of discharge (DOD) - PERIOD!!

... daily gone past 20% DOD.
Eric Belmer from Ohio has driven his 2012 Volt Sparkie over 315k miles with over 110k miles on EV and still gets the same 35 mile EV range as when brand new.
2014 Chevy Volt ...

aventineavenue
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:58 am

Re: 150,000 Miles on my original battery 2011

Sun May 22, 2016 4:56 am

re: Erick's "2012 Volt Sparkie over 315k miles with over 110k miles on EV and still gets the same 35 mile EV range as when brand new."

To the OP's point, the Volt has state of charge (SOC) governing, meaning the battery cannot be depleted below around 18%, and not charged above around 88% (actual percenrages depend upon the model year firmware and battery size) So degredation due to ovedraining or fully charging (and then exposing to heat which could cause the battery to exceed 100% SOC, swell up and recieve physical damage at the microscopic level)

Also: Unlike the LEAF, the Volt uses an active liquid thermal management system (TMS) that both cools and warms the battery, keeping it in a "sweet spot" of between ~45F and ~85F while in operation (discharge) or being charged. Under extreme circumstances, it may even activate while the car is parked in the heat.

A third factor is that I understanding the Volt's anode is made of something called "hard carbon" (versus a softer gralhite in the anode of the LEAF cells) This has been shown to reduce the effects of calendar ageing, where a cell loses capacity simply by being 1, 2, or say 5 years old.

In a nutshell, the Volt's battery system has been emgineered for extreme longevity based on the known properties of Li Ion batteries, much as modern gasoline engines have been engineered to last longer than the simple air cooled engines of long ago.

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