150,000 Miles on my original battery 2011

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TaylorSFGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
Messages
191
Location
Kent, Washington
Hi everyone - It has taken me a long time to get from 100,000 to this milestone. In October I was at 146,000 and GIDS were 152. I was waiting for better weather as the power draw for heat was just too much.

Tonight when I pull into the driveway the odometer will roll 150,000 miles. My GID count is 147 at full charge and I have 5 bars gone.

If you have any questions, let me know.
 
Congrats on hitting 150k! Definitely an accomplishment, especially with your degraded battery.

Have you tried to contact Nissan to see if they would do anything? (they probably won't but since you have so many miles there could be a 1% chance they might help) I'm sure you have in the past but maybe again now that you're over 150k miles.
 
That is an accomplishment! We're at 63K miles on our 2011 LEAF's original battery, with two bars missing. I can see potentially making it past 100K miles on this battery, but 150K, wow.

Are you quick charging twice a day to make your commute? Or just using the 2011 LEAF for shorter drives?
 
wow!! Especially how committed you were to putting that extra 50k miles after you'd hit 100k miles. Like the Insideevs article: http://insideevs.com/exclusive-interview-with-steve-marsh-as-his-nissan-leaf-hits-150000-miles-original-battery/

Question though. For the sake of economics, why not buy the replacement 24kwh battery instead of the 2014 leaf? $5500 vs $20,000 for the same number of miles (but new everything else) seemed like a cheaper choice?
 
Congrats and Hard work since October only averaging 46 miles/day if you drove only 4 months of the eight due to cold weather/range degradation.

The savings for you of driving an average of 91 miles per day between delivery and 10/1/2015 is amazing!!

ICE at 24 mpg and 3.50/gallon comes to a savings of (150,000 / 24 * $3.50 = $21,875) versus electricity of 3.5 cents per mile - savings 21,875-5,250 = $16,625

Add 5 years of oil changes at $35/pop - savings = 700

Add 2 transmission oil flushings - savings = 360

Add 1 brake service savings = 400

Add 3 engine coolant flushings = 240

Add 1 tire change savings = 700

Add 5 years of other service crap of an ICE,( mufflers H2O sensors, EGR valve, etc, etc, etc) = 1,250 (very conservative)

Total savings with the Leaf = $20,275 or $0.135 per mile
 
Congrats! I read the article on insideEVs. I'm curious as to how the 15 cars will hold up past 100K miles (or even at it). I'm still debating on what to do with my 2015 leaf once my Model S gets here. Part of me wants to just sell it, but I'm also curious as to whether they will even let us buy the 30kwh batter (at a reasonable price) and put those in the cars. At some point they will have to. That changes the paradigm entirely.

Do you know what you're doing with your 2011 at this point? At $3K for resale, there's not much you can get by selling it, but if a 30kwh pack becomes an option in a year or two, buying one of those for it makes a ton of sense. If it were me, I'd drop the insurance down to bare minimum liability and just use it for errands while I wait and see.
 
"Question though. For the sake of economics, why not buy the replacement 24kwh battery instead of the 2014 leaf? $5500 vs $20,000 for the same number of miles (but new everything else) seemed like a cheaper choice?"

Purchasing a new battery wasn't an option for many years. We bought the first car not knowing what options may be available or even how long the battery would last. It was only possible to get a new battery as a warranty replacement. I was pushing the mileage harder than most and they didn't expect there to be a need. I think the unknown was impacting new sales at the time which is really what drove the announcement. Briefly, Nissan threw out the idea of renting a replacement battery which thankfully those of us at a meeting in Phoenix were able to put down - at least bring up some perspective that may not have been considered. It died down pretty quickly.

The day after we purchased the 2014, Nissan announced the pricing and policies of purchasing a replacement battery. Had Nissan made some sort of announcements ("we plan to announce a battery replacement program soon") and the timing been slightly different, we would have purchased a battery instead of a car.

So there you have it - why we purchased another car instead of a battery.
 
rexki said:
Congrats and Hard work since October only averaging 46 miles/day if you drove only 4 months of the eight due to cold weather/range degradation.

The savings for you of driving an average of 91 miles per day between delivery and 10/1/2015 is amazing!!

ICE at 24 mpg and 3.50/gallon comes to a savings of (150,000 / 24 * $3.50 = $21,875) versus electricity of 3.5 cents per mile - savings 21,875-5,250 = $16,625

Add 5 years of oil changes at $35/pop - savings = 700

Add 2 transmission oil flushings - savings = 360

Add 1 brake service savings = 400

Add 3 engine coolant flushings = 240

Add 1 tire change savings = 700

Add 5 years of other service crap of an ICE,( mufflers H2O sensors, EGR valve, etc, etc, etc) = 1,250 (very conservative)

Total savings with the Leaf = $20,275 or $0.135 per mile

Thank you for this very clear information. My situation is slightly different (replaced a car getting 30MPG and electricity is less). So your top line comes to $13,500 and I did swap tires once. So I am still sitting North of $0.10 savings per mile. No matter how you slice it, I did save on the operational costs of EV vs. ICE. It probably makes up for the higher depreciation of EV vs. ICE. A second battery would push it over easily.

Everything about the car has held up well except I can't drive it far enough. Just like your cell phone - it doesn't last for the day so you have to plug it in more and more often to get through the day.
 
TaylorSFGuy said:
Everything about the car has held up well except I can't drive it far enough. Just like your cell phone - it doesn't last for the day so you have to plug it in more and more often to get through the day.
How is your '14 holding up in comparison to the '11?

I would imagine that even with a 65 mile commute, if you had the new 30 kWh battery, that'd be enough to get you well beyond 100k miles without having to charge on the way. If it turns out to be more durable as the warranty suggests, it would probably get you well beyond your 250k mile target for a vehicle.
 
Hi Steve,

2 questions:

1) What do you think is the primary cause of the advanced degradation, multiple QCs per day, charging to 100%/draining below 10%, parking in the heat, driving fast, or something else?

2) Did the battery temperature indicator (a helpful feature I think all EVs should have) frequently indicate this risk when driving, charging, parked on a hot day, etc?

Thanks in advance!

Mark
 
aventineavenue said:
Hi Steve,

2 questions:

Have you looked at http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss ?

It's pretty clear that Heat and Time are the primary factors.

TaylorSFGuy lost bar 5 at 50 months 141,000 miles
91040 lost bar 5 at 50 months 101,200

Hobbyguy lost bar 5 at 43 months 65,000 miles
TickTock lost bar 5 at 41 months 44,241 miles

Mileage aka charge cycles really don't matter for most of us because heat is so overwhelming a factor. Maybe for those in the pacific northwest and Canada it becomes a noticeable factor but if you live anywhere that gets hot that's the biggest factor.
 
I would have to take issue with the Moderator from Tennessee - http://www.bestplaces.net/climate/city/washington/kent - The high July temperature is below the US average of 86.5 - Kent Washington is 78.

Heat appears not to be the issue but I do not live in Kent WA nor does the moderator. Unless the car is airlifted the majority of its days on a C-130 transport to Phoenix AZ then I would put that to rest.

Cycles are the ultimate killer after excessive temperature exposure. A perfect battery in perfect conditions - its biggest "normal" enemy are cycle counts below 20% dept of discharge (DOD) - PERIOD!!

The 150,000 mile car averaging 91 miles per day through October 2015 and likely higher per day in first 4 years would have daily gone past 20% DOD. Most Li batteries don't make 600 cycle counts to 50% capacity - much less 1,825 (5*365). This tells me the owner is a master of batteries to make it this far and still be above 50% - with what I would expect 30-40% capacity in perfect conditions.
 
dhanson865:

I forgot to include calendar aging as a factor to consider; are there any examples of 4-5+ year old LEAFs (in mild climates) that have not yet lost a single battery bar, whether they have high (>50k) or low mileage?
 
Steve-

Congrats on hitting the 150,000 milestone! From a dollars and cents stand-point, it looks like the leaf was a winner.

I guess my question is, "Would you do it again" or maybe better yet "What are your future plans? Keeping the Leafs? Upgrading to Leaf 2.0? Going to a different EV? Going back to ICE or PHEV?"

J.
 
:D

Congrats and great to see you here. I read the article that was published about your journey it was awesome. I was a little bummed hearing about the big depreciation loss with the leaf and wondered how that played out against the savings plus maintenance costs ice vs ev.

I'm curious you mentioned needing to change the tires once, or rotate? Were there any other maintained costs? Break Pads? Rotors? Is the A/C Unit still working? Break Fluid? Any other repairs? I just wonder how well the leafy has hold up in that sense :).

Sorry to hear you won't be continuing the journey. SHAME on nissan for not handing you out a new battery or some sort of help with the 14 leaf to keep your 11 with perks. Bad bad bad.
 
rexki said:
,,, The high July temperature ... Kent Washington is 78.

Heat appears not to be the issue ... Cycles are the ultimate killer after excessive temperature exposure. A perfect battery in perfect conditions - its biggest "normal" enemy are cycle counts below 20% dept of discharge (DOD) - PERIOD!!

... daily gone past 20% DOD.

Eric Belmer from Ohio has driven his 2012 Volt Sparkie over 315k miles with over 110k miles on EV and still gets the same 35 mile EV range as when brand new.
 
re: Erick's "2012 Volt Sparkie over 315k miles with over 110k miles on EV and still gets the same 35 mile EV range as when brand new."

To the OP's point, the Volt has state of charge (SOC) governing, meaning the battery cannot be depleted below around 18%, and not charged above around 88% (actual percenrages depend upon the model year firmware and battery size) So degredation due to ovedraining or fully charging (and then exposing to heat which could cause the battery to exceed 100% SOC, swell up and recieve physical damage at the microscopic level)

Also: Unlike the LEAF, the Volt uses an active liquid thermal management system (TMS) that both cools and warms the battery, keeping it in a "sweet spot" of between ~45F and ~85F while in operation (discharge) or being charged. Under extreme circumstances, it may even activate while the car is parked in the heat.

A third factor is that I understanding the Volt's anode is made of something called "hard carbon" (versus a softer gralhite in the anode of the LEAF cells) This has been shown to reduce the effects of calendar ageing, where a cell loses capacity simply by being 1, 2, or say 5 years old.

In a nutshell, the Volt's battery system has been emgineered for extreme longevity based on the known properties of Li Ion batteries, much as modern gasoline engines have been engineered to last longer than the simple air cooled engines of long ago.
 
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