BrockWI
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:28 am
Delivery Date: 28 Mar 2014
Leaf Number: 423875
Location: Green Bay, WI.
Contact: Website

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:07 pm

With Superchargers on the way we have one about every 90 miles and here and a bunch in Minneapolis, there is only 1 CCS option about 180 miles from here, which A better Route Planner says the new Bolt will make it staying under 65mph. Leaving here would be fine, but coming home I would have to sit there until 100% to drive 65 on the way home...
2013 S model with QC package Mar of 2013
lost first bar @ 72k
@100k miles - 57.3Ahr - 87.62SOH - 84.13Hx - 241GID
3.3 kw solar pv - XW6048 - eight L16's
4 ton GSHP - 1 ton ASHP
2003 VW TDI 210k miles - 52 mpg lifetime
EVSE level 2 - Clipper Creek HSC-40

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14819
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:48 am

cwerdna wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:52 pm
^^^
Interesting...

At the same time, the 2019 and 2020 Bolt (esp. the latter) have a bit more range than the 62 kWh Leaf: https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?act ... 6&id=40520. Maybe that's another thing pushing them towards Bolt along w/battery thermal management?

You're right about Bolt discounting publicity. I've heard of basically 0 for Leaf and Leaf Plus in that dept.
I do also think that a lot of people are putting a bit too much value on TMS which is pushing them towards both Tesla and the Bolt. If I were living farther south, I think it would weigh very heavily on me as well but at an effective price of less than $26,000 tax free, I am not regretting my decision. TBH, I was considering the Bolt but BOTH times the Bolt prices were low, I wasn't in the market. Now if I had waited on the E Plus until now, I would be getting a car that sat "somewhere" for 6 months but would have only saved about $2,000 since S Plus discounts are very small.

The real savings is people who wanted SV with tech or SL's. They are making a killing right now.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 10,081 mi, 95.03% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1685
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:25 pm

I tried investigating the Bolt as a possible car for our kids given the advertised deals. When finally talking to a sales person, the magic low price ended up being a few K higher, and lease deals weren't anything that amazing (not expensive..but not like the $129/month Ionic deals).

That and I really did not like driving the car. I think it has some cool tech in the 2020 with the digital mirror, and I am kind of partial to the min/median/max range detail and kW used...just hate the feel and seats. Cargo is also not nearly as generous...but we could have dealt with it.

As a conservative driver, in June I/we are averaging (including multiple highway stints and a trip to Wisconsin), 4.8 miles per kW. (My more aggressive driving son and wife also account for a chunk of that driving) I forgot how well the car does as the air temperature heats up. (It is really nice when above 80F). With GOM at 172 miles with a 62% SOC charge as I type, I guess additional range beyond what I have is really feeling a lot less valuable then when I had my 2013. As I mentioned in a separate post, the efficiency this summer feels notably higher than any month last summer. A small part might be that for local driving I use ePedal most of the time. Highway (55-60mph) is also doing a bit better than last summer as well. Smooth tires?

Separately, I am very impressed with Tesla efficiency at highway speeds. I have been watching a few recent posts on youtube with full 70MPH range tests on the LR and SR+ M3. 4.4-4.6 miles/kW at 70 is amazing. That would probably be my biggest advice to Nissan to find a way to improve the high speed efficiency. Drag is a piece of it, but I think there is an electronic/power train efficiency aspect as well. Low speeds see the cars having much more identical characteristics from what I have seen. Second piece of advice is to get rid of the rear hump and install a fan vent in the back.
2019 S Plus (98.6% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.6% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh

cwerdna
Posts: 10595
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:32 pm

^^^
You talking about kWh and miles per kWh? "miles per kW" makes no sense.

The "digital mirror" is also available on gen 2 Leaf. On my Bolt, I personally don't use it most of the time as my eyes have trouble switching focus between the road ahead vs. looking at the digital part of the mirror. So, I normally have it flipped to be a regular mirror.

Yeah, one advantage of Bolt is that that's no rear hump on the floor for the rear center seat.

That's too bad about Bolt price. As for leases, I looked into when I was in the market and didn't feel like paying the amounts I was seeing to "rent" the car for 3 years. Also, the lease deals I was seeing at http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/ back then were for LT trim (lower trim) and pretty stripped down. I wanted Premier (higher trim) + DC FC inlet, at minimum.

I can understand Dave not valuing TMS much. That's an ideal climate for Leaf batteries. However, many people in the US don't live in such a mild climate and we've been burned in the past by Leaf battery degradation and it's still a big unknown on 62 kWh Leaf.

And, as I said at the time in the market (Jan 2019), Leaf Plus wasn't shipping in the US yet. There was only the mention of Spring (2019). Bolts were heavily discounted + had $7500 Federal tax credit. It didn't seem reasonable to think that Leaf Plus would have heavy discounts at the beginning esp. when Bolt's tax credit would fall to $3750 beginning on 4/1/19 (https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml).

I didn't feel the 40 kWh Leaf (highest capacity available in Jan 2019) would cut it as my only car and rapidgate was in full swing (https://cleantechnica.com/2019/01/05/ni ... re-update/) w/Nissan balking at releasing the fix to the US market. It wasn't until July 2019 that they finally released it for the US via NTB19-056 (https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/ ... 8-9999.pdf).

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1685
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:55 pm

Leaf 2 has a screen in the rear view mirror like the bolt??

I have a 2019 SV with tech package, but know of no such available option. In the 2020 Bolt, the rear view mirror can act as a mirror or a digital screen showing the rear camera. I know I ca bring up the rear camera On the main screen while driving the Leaf, but that’s not quite the same thing.
2019 S Plus (98.6% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.6% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 14898
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:00 pm

The "digital mirror" is also available on gen 2 Leaf. On my Bolt, I personally don't use it most of the time as my eyes have trouble switching focus between the road ahead vs. looking at the digital part of the mirror. So, I normally have it flipped to be a regular mirror.
To the best of my knowledge, there is no mirror linked to a camera available on any Leaf, ever. If there is it must be a 2021 option. The Leaf SV and SV+ now have Around View available in the Tech Package, as of the 2020 MY.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 10595
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:20 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:00 pm
The "digital mirror" is also available on gen 2 Leaf. On my Bolt, I personally don't use it most of the time as my eyes have trouble switching focus between the road ahead vs. looking at the digital part of the mirror. So, I normally have it flipped to be a regular mirror.
To the best of my knowledge, there is no mirror linked to a camera available on any Leaf, ever. If there is it must be a 2021 option. The Leaf SV and SV+ now have Around View available in the Tech Package, as of the 2020 MY.
Woah... unless I'm having a brain fart, I could've sworn the pre-production gen 2 Leaf I test drove years ago before it went on sale in the US had it. And, thus I assumed (incorrectly?) that it became available as an option on US market gen 2 Leafs. Hmmm...

However, my 1st experience w/this type of mirror was on a test drive of a Bolt years before I bought mine at either an EVent or the San Jose Auto Show.

Looks like for Australia or maybe their press car, https://www.drive.com.au/new-car-review ... iew-116140 had it. Search for mirror.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 14898
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:03 pm

I believe you, but it apparently didn't make it to the US. I have no problem with the auto-dimming Leaf mirror. As noted when the Bolt came out (and I agreed) the Bolt's camera-mirror can cause eyestrain as your focus shifts back and forth.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 2494
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:32 pm

As far as I know, there was no option for a "digital mirror" on the 2019 LEAF SL Plus (mine has all of the automatic/convenience features) and I saw no additional options for the mirror. I have driven a few rental or fleet vehicles with the rear camera display in the rearview mirror and I hate them. I much prefer the rear view camera display on the navigation screen.

Why did I choose another LEAF?
1. Good experience with the two previous ones.
2. I like the hatchback design and cargo capacity--Bolt is too small so I would end up using other vehicles for hauling stuff.
3. I don't like having all (or most) car/accessory controls on a touch screen and I want the speedometer in front of the steering wheel so I don't need to take my eyes too far off the road to see how fast I am going.
4. I like the higher roof line and seating position of the LEAF compared to other vehicles in the price range which are available in Arizona. I really like the Jaguar, but did not want to spend that much on a daily driver and be paranoid about rock chips or other damage every time I drive.
5. The $7,500 tax credit helped me avoid tax penalties due to inadvertent under withholding (caused by tax law changes).

After 9 months and 17,000 miles, I only have two negative items/concerns:
1. OEM Michelin tires on the 2019 were as bad as they were on the 2015, but that is behind me since I replaced them at 15,000 miles. The Bridgestone Ecopias that came on the 2011 were much better tires.
2. The touch screen on the navigation system is too sensitive and difficult to make selections without inadvertent scrolling. The screen went crazy when I used lens cleaning tissues to clean the screen before driving home from the office one day. It acted like someone was randomly touching the screen and changing menus for the entire 45-minute drive home. I had to turn the audio off because it was jumping stations and switching sources continually. I could not do anything until I got home and was able to clean the screen with clear water to restore normal function. The "inadvertent touching" made a bunch of setting changes so I had to go through each menu and correct the settings. The software that controls/operates the navigation/menu system is also not as intuitive as the system in the previous cars so I find it much more distracting to use while driving. This experience confirmed my concerns about buying a vehicle that puts too many functions on a touch screen.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

cwerdna
Posts: 10595
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:42 pm

It's possible I had a complete brain fart re: my test drive of a pre-production '18 Leaf and its mirror. The car was fully loaded though (w/Pro-Pilot Assist and AVM). But, it's also possible those vehicles were not necessarily representative of what Nissan USA eventually offered for sale.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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