webeleafowners
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Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:00 am

salyavin wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:39 am
While much more primitive the LEAF does have lane keep assist and at least with pro pilot assist can keep distance from car in front. I doubt most people drive with these features on every time they are in the car so plan your incapacitation while driving in advance ;)
Lol. For sure.

On our test drive last year we found the Propilot to work pretty good and from what I hear pro-pilot II is even better.

Question. Can Leaf owners with Propilot I get updated to Propilot II?

Re usage. I would guess that we use Autopilot more than 90 percent of the time. Quite honestly it’s rarely not in TACC or Autopilot.
2020 Model 3 Tesla. AWD with FSD. Deep metallic blue. Our daily driver.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh Culis Red. Sold. Was my daily driver. Loved that car.
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

cwerdna
Posts: 11352
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:27 am

cwerdna wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:46 pm
US: Nissan LEAF Dropped To A New Low In Q3 Sales
https://insideevs.com/news/447171/us-ni ... 020-sales/
During the third quarter of 2020, Nissan sold only 1,916 LEAFs in the U.S., which is not only 38.3% less than a year ago, but the lowest result in a third-quarter since the introduction.

The only small positive is that LEAF managed to achieve 2.7% out of the total Nissan volume, which is not bad considering its expected upcoming retirement.

It's hard to blame the LEAF, as in general Nissan is struggling these days with 71,092 passenger car sales (down 36% year-over-year) and 203,783 total vehicle sales (down 32.6% year-over-year).

So far this year, Nissan LEAF sales have decreased by 46% year-over-year to 4,923.
In contrast, I posted at viewtopic.php?p=591284#p591284 a pointer to https://insideevs.com/news/446871/q3-20 ... -sales-us/.
5,682 Chevrolet Bolt EVs were sold in Q3, all without the $7,500 federal tax credit.

During the third quarter of 2020, Chevrolet has noticeably increased sales of the all-electric Bolt EV to 5,682 (up 17.6% year-over-year).
I was thinking about this last night and wondering if Nissan is intentionally limited sales and/or supply of Leafs in the US at the moment.

If so, perhaps they want to slow down the "clock" so that once Ariya comes out, it will have the full $7500 Federal tax credit for longer then $3750 and so on... If they have ample supply and/or generous incentives on Leaf now, Ariya will have less time at $7500, $3750 and so on.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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jlv
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Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:53 am

webeleafowners wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:00 am
On our test drive last year we found the Propilot to work pretty good and from what I hear pro-pilot II is even better.

Question. Can Leaf owners with Propilot I get updated to Propilot II?
Yes - it comes included when you update your older LEAF to a current model. :lol:
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18, 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%)
Tesla S 75D (3/17, 45K mi)
Tesla X 100D (12/18, 23K mi)
ICE free since '18
100K+ 100% BEV miles since '14

webeleafowners
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Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:19 pm

jlv wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:53 am
webeleafowners wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:00 am
On our test drive last year we found the Propilot to work pretty good and from what I hear pro-pilot II is even better.

Question. Can Leaf owners with Propilot I get updated to Propilot II?
Yes - it comes included when you update your older LEAF to a current model. :lol:
Lol. I had to read that twice. Surprises me that it is not a simple software update. Although there very well could be some hardware too.
2020 Model 3 Tesla. AWD with FSD. Deep metallic blue. Our daily driver.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh Culis Red. Sold. Was my daily driver. Loved that car.
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

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jlv
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Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:34 pm

webeleafowners wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:19 pm
Although there very well could be some hardware too.
Mobileeye is hardware based. ProPilot II depends upon the EyeQ4 SOC. It's possible that the hardware could be swapped out, but traditional automakers like Nissan don't build things that way.

It's part of the reason why Tesla stopped using Mobileye's hardware (which is what AP1 was based upon) and created their own (AP2) - so it can be upgraded OTA. And they developed the FSD add-on hardware (HW3) so that it can be added to every car.

Every Tesla sold since AP2 came out in late 2016 runs the current version of AutoPilot. And with the OTA from 2 months ago, AP2 finally gained the last feature that AP1 had, reading speed limit signs.
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18, 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%)
Tesla S 75D (3/17, 45K mi)
Tesla X 100D (12/18, 23K mi)
ICE free since '18
100K+ 100% BEV miles since '14

webeleafowners
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Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:24 pm

jlv wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:34 pm
webeleafowners wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:19 pm
Although there very well could be some hardware too.
Mobileeye is hardware based. ProPilot II depends upon the EyeQ4 SOC. It's possible that the hardware could be swapped out, but traditional automakers like Nissan don't build things that way.

It's part of the reason why Tesla stopped using Mobileye's hardware (which is what AP1 was based upon) and created their own (AP2) - so it can be upgraded OTA. And they developed the FSD add-on hardware (HW3) so that it can be added to every car.

Every Tesla sold since AP2 came out in late 2016 runs the current version of AutoPilot. And with the OTA from 2 months ago, AP2 finally gained the last feature that AP1 had, reading speed limit signs.
That was really informative. Thank you. As of a few days ago we are on 2020.40.8. No complaints. Putting a pin on the glove compartment is a nice addition but not something we will actually use. If the glove box was big enough for a shot gun maybe. :).

Cheers.
2020 Model 3 Tesla. AWD with FSD. Deep metallic blue. Our daily driver.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh Culis Red. Sold. Was my daily driver. Loved that car.
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

SageBrush
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Location: NM

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:57 pm

webeleafowners wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:24 pm
jlv wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:34 pm
webeleafowners wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:19 pm
Although there very well could be some hardware too.
Mobileeye is hardware based. ProPilot II depends upon the EyeQ4 SOC. It's possible that the hardware could be swapped out, but traditional automakers like Nissan don't build things that way.

It's part of the reason why Tesla stopped using Mobileye's hardware (which is what AP1 was based upon) and created their own (AP2) - so it can be upgraded OTA. And they developed the FSD add-on hardware (HW3) so that it can be added to every car.

Every Tesla sold since AP2 came out in late 2016 runs the current version of AutoPilot. And with the OTA from 2 months ago, AP2 finally gained the last feature that AP1 had, reading speed limit signs.
That was really informative. Thank you. As of a few days ago we are on 2020.40.8. No complaints. Putting a pin on the glove compartment is a nice addition but not something we will actually use. If the glove box was big enough for a shot gun maybe. :).
From the horse's mouth:
Each EyeQ chip features heterogeneous, fully programmable accelerators; with each accelerator type optimized for its own family of algorithms. This diversity of accelerator architectures enables applications to save both computation time and chip power by using the most suitable core for every task. Optimizing the assignment of tasks to cores thus ensures that the EyeQ provides “super-computer” capabilities within a low-power envelope to enable price-efficient passive cooling.

The fully programmable accelerator cores are as follows:

The Vector Microcode Processors (VMP), which debuted in the EyeQ2, are now in their 4th generation of implementation in the EyeQ5, and are designed in most advanced VLSI process technology nodes – down to 7nm FinFET in the 5th generation. The VMP, a VLIW SIMD processor with cheap and flexible memory access, provides hardware support for operations common to computer vision applications and is well-suited to multi-core scenarios. Its computational power targets 24 trillion operations per second, while drawing only 10 watts in a typical application.
The Multithreaded Processing Cluster (MPC) was introduced in the EyeQ4 and now reaches its 2nd generation of implementation in the EyeQ5. The MPC is more versatile than any GPU and more efficient than any CPU.
The Programmable Macro Array (PMA) was introduced in the EyeQ4 and now reaches its 2nd generation of implementation in the EyeQ5. The PMA enables computation density nearing that of fixed-function hardware accelerators without sacrificing programmability.
In addition to Mobileye’s innovative and well-proven computer vision accelerators, the EyeQ features generic multithread CPU cores to provide the complete and robust computing platform that ADAS/AV applications demand.
[*]

EyeQ devices are delivered to automakers and Tier1 suppliers along with a full suite of hardware accelerated algorithms and applications that are required for ADAS and autonomous driving. Along with this, Mobileye supports an automotive-grade standard operating system and provides a complete software development kit (SDK) to allow customers to differentiate their solutions by deploying their algorithms on EyeQ5. The SDK may also be used for prototyping and deployment of neural networks, and for access to Mobileye pre-trained network layers. Uses of EyeQ5 as an open software platform are facilitated by such architectural elements such as hardware virtualization and full cache coherency between CPUs and accelerators.
This is a pretty good description of why MobileEye fails. They provide the hardware and OS that provides ~ 80% of level 2 AP functionality, and then each OEM is on their own to try and solve the remaining 20% of level 2, each time reinventing the wheel. Level3+ is a dream that no auto OEM outside of Tesla has the expertise, infrastructure, or fleet to accomplish.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

webeleafowners
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Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:21 pm

Interesting. I wouldn’t be surprised if FSD is at level 3 within a year.

Jmho.
2020 Model 3 Tesla. AWD with FSD. Deep metallic blue. Our daily driver.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh Culis Red. Sold. Was my daily driver. Loved that car.
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

DougWantsALeaf
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Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:23 pm

2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2217
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:07 am

2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

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