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Nubo
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Re: How Old is YOUR 12 volt Battery?

Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:57 am

gncndad wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:27 am
nlspace wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:31 pm
Here's a page from a Yuasa battery guide that explains about when the sulfation occurs. The guide is geared toward smaller batteries such as motorcycles and ATV, but the guide information applies to all lead acid and can be downloaded.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/48788 ... =15#manual

An interesting paragraph from the guide, emphasis mine:

"There's a simple rule of thumb about batteries, and if you're a dealer or a mechanic, you know that people ignore it all the time: for a battery to operate the way it's supposed to, it has to be fully charged before it's used...and kept fully charged throughout its life."

That is the secret to getting extended life out of the aux battery.
I think this requires some clarification. I'm going to modify this (bold) statement. "...kept in a properly operating charge/discharge environment..." On ICE engines, the voltage regulator doesn't ever charge the 12V to capacity, usually stopping at 80-90%, to avoid overchargin. . I assume the same for hybrids/electrics. IIRC, 12V, like our HV batteries, function best between 20-80%. Constant charge/discharge outside of this range isn't healthy.

Hopefully someone more expert will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.

(I'm really NOT shouting, for some reason, I can't un-bold my post!!!)
Fixed. :)
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

GaleHawkins
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Location: Murray KY

Re: How Old is YOUR 12 volt Battery?

Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:36 pm

When I got our 2016 two months ago I pulled off the 12 volt OEM battery and was going to replace it for the heck of it. The electrolyte level was within normal limits and still looks new like. It just came off of a 3 year lease so I expect the water level was checked every 30 days or less. :)

The starting battery from Japan on the new 1973 Nissan lasted for 10 years dealing with engine heat.

I put the OEM back on the 2016 and since I drive it daily with the 400 volt battery as it battery tender I expect 10 years of life.

I replace lead acid batteries if they get low on electrolyte and show any level of corrosion because they are failing or the charger system is over charging them. If I replace it I may go with the Rogue size battery since it will fit the base and I will just get a new tie down bracket. It may just be more weight with no functional gain if I never use the 12 volt battery to power an inverter for 120 volts AC.

WetEV
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Re: How Old is YOUR 12 volt Battery?

Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:45 pm

powersurge wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:49 am
gncndad wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:27 am
nlspace wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:31 pm
Here's a page from a Yuasa battery guide that explains about when the sulfation occurs. The guide is geared toward smaller batteries such as motorcycles and ATV, but the guide information applies to all lead acid and can be downloaded.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/48788 ... =15#manual

An interesting paragraph from the guide, emphasis mine:

"There's a simple rule of thumb about batteries, and if you're a dealer or a mechanic, you know that people ignore it all the time: for a battery to operate the way it's supposed to, it has to be fully charged before it's used...and kept fully charged throughout its life[/b]."

That is the secret to getting extended life out of the aux battery.


I think this requires some clarification. I'm going to modify this (bold) statement. "...kept in a properly operating charge/discharge environment..." On ICE engines, the voltage regulator doesn't ever charge the 12V to capacity, usually stopping at 80-90%, to avoid overchargin. . I assume the same for hybrids/electrics. IIRC, 12V, like our HV batteries, function best between 20-80%. Constant charge/discharge outside of this range isn't healthy.

Hopefully someone more expert will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.

(I'm really NOT shouting, for some reason, I can't un-bold my post!!!)


The 12 volt battery in any car is a Lead Acid battery, which for the longest life needs to be charged to 100%.

The 20-80% rule is ONLY for the Leaf's large battery because it actually lasts the longest at 50%.

If you kept the 12 v battery at 50%, you would need a new batter VERY FREQUENTLY.

Bolding
not bolding.

The bolding markups [ b ] and [ / b ] were not matched. So I added a [ / b ]
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
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LeftieBiker
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Re: How Old is YOUR 12 volt Battery?

Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:46 pm

The 20-80% rule is ONLY for the Leaf's large battery because it actually lasts the longest at 50%.

If you kept the 12 v battery at 50%, you would need a new batter VERY FREQUENTLY.

This bears repeating. Lead-acid batteries of ANY type do best at (but not above) 100% charge. There is no advantage in charging them to 80%, and it will do damage quickly if kept below 80%. I suspect that someone is confusing NiMH batteries, which do best between 20% and 80%, with lead-acid. Those are used in the high voltage traction battery in the regular Prius, and they do well there because they are regulated to stay between 20% and 80%.
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Nubo
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Re: How Old is YOUR 12 volt Battery?

Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:20 pm

GaleHawkins wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:36 pm
...It just came off of a 3 year lease so I expect the water level was checked every 30 days or less. :) ...
I'm curious; how did you draw that conclusion?
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

GaleHawkins
Posts: 446
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:24 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2019
Leaf Number: 311365
Location: Murray KY

Re: How Old is YOUR 12 volt Battery?

Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:42 pm

Nubo wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:20 pm
GaleHawkins wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:36 pm
...It just came off of a 3 year lease so I expect the water level was checked every 30 days or less. :) ...
I'm curious; how did you draw that conclusion?
I mean how much attention does most leased cars get. 12 volt batteries do not loose electrolyte normally so I expect it was never checked. Clearly we know it was not checked often if ever. Since the battery compartment is new looking I just cleaned out the dust and reinstalled it.

baumgrenze
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Re: How Old is YOUR 12 volt Battery?

Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:52 pm

In reply to the original post, we took delivery of our 2012 SL on 7 Dec 2011. I've never messed with the 12V battery in the ensuing 8 years. The electrolyte level is down by ~1/4 of the way between the MAX and MIN levels.
The car has 34,008 miles on it.
Our major maintenance expense have been two replacement tires due to wall rupture from road hazards. I also finally gave up and paid a junk yard for a compatible Altima spare tire and wheel. It is kept in the garage since we rarely drive far from home and could always get a ride to go there and pick it up and, at this point in life, have CSAA come and mount it so I could drive to the tire store for a replacement should it happen again.
You may have seen my recent post on the 'bar loss count' thread as well. With the help of the active members there, I understand that it is down by 1 bar which is better than most for a car of this vintage.

baumgrenze
Thanks,

baumgrenze

2012 Glacier Pearl

cwerdna
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Re: How Old is YOUR 12 volt Battery?

Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:53 pm

Mine's about a month old, bought from Costco.

Replacement saga at https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=572068#p572068.

Previous battery was an "84 month" Nissan-branded battery installed by a local dealer for free under warranty in ~Oct 2015. The one that came in my used '13 5/2013 Leaf bit the dust back in ~Oct 2015. Unknown if the 12 volt had been changed before that.

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Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
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Re: How Old is YOUR 12 volt Battery?

Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:07 pm

The Japanese 12 volt batteries in the early Japan-built Leafs was much better than the later North American batteries, but at 8 years old I strongly suggest a new one. AGM type batteries work best, but since you're selling the car any good type 51R battery is ok.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
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PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
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Re: How Old is YOUR 12 volt Battery?

Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:18 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:07 pm
The Japanese 12 volt batteries in the early Japan-built Leafs was much better than the later North American batteries, but at 8 years old I strongly suggest a new one.
Yeah, it sure seems like it.

Also, those with '11 to '17 Leaf SL's with the solar panel who park outside in the sun AND live in a rainy area probably have it best due to the car boosting the "12 volt" bus voltage to 14.x volts each time the wipers are activated and it leaves the voltage elevated for awhile. I've observed that on my '13 and I know it's not limited to '13 Leafs.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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