Possible Widespread 2018-19 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

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LeftieBiker said:
It's already been yanked.

Hmmm... It still works on my cellphone. I will come back hopefully with a workaround. It has to do with a video about a longer range trip and the battery not accepting more than 24 KW after a couple of initial charges. I will try to find the poster of the video. OK, I had one letter incorrect in the string. Thanks for the heads up, fixed it!
 
It's starting to look very much like Nissan already knows that the 40kwh packs have the same design and/or build flaw as the 30kwh units. It is puzzling, though, that the QC speed restriction occurs regardless of pack temperature...
 
LeftieBiker said:
It's starting to look very much like Nissan already knows that the 40kwh packs have the same design and/or build flaw as the 30kwh units. It is puzzling, though, that the QC speed restriction occurs regardless of pack temperature...

Yes, I agree. Guessing it is probably a software setup to make sure there is limited heat. Maybe it is software parameters that can be tweaked without completely sacrificing the battery.
 
LeftieBiker said:
It's already been yanked.
Video plays for my on this page as well as on YouTube's page.

Haven't watched more than about 1 minute though. What's the gist? DC FCing is slower on the 40 kWh than the 24 kWh pack? Or, it gets throttled much earlier? I saw the bit about how he was estimating that a former 48 hour trip on a 24 kWh Leaf w/33 DC FCs he estimates would take 5 or 6 hours longer on a 40 kWh car.
 
cwerdna said:
LeftieBiker said:
It's already been yanked.
Video plays for my on this page as well as on YouTube's page.

Haven't watched more than about 1 minute though. What's the gist? DC FCing is slower on the 40 kWh than the 24 kWh pack? Or, it gets throttled much earlier? I saw the bit about how he was estimating that a former 48 hour trip on a 24 kWh Leaf w/33 DC FCs he estimates would take 5 or 6 hours longer on a 40 kWh car.

The original link had a typo in it. It's been fixed. The gist is that the 40kwh cars throttle back charging a lot from the third QC on, with all charge rates lower than claimed by Nissan, leading to charge times in the 4-5 hour range for each succeeding charge after the second QC, which is also reduced somewhat. So the 2018 Leaf is apparently a "One Fast Charge at a time" car.

EDIT: fixed the description.
 
Very strange that the throttling happens after the first one or two QC sessions. Edit: I misunderstood. It's the 3rd or 4th QC in a day that seems to be the problem. So the early squawks about rapid heating seem to be borne out. Or at least what the vehicle considers to be rapid heating. I'd be interested to know the actual temperatures.
 
There was a thread at https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/1871987049538794/ squawking about something like this but there was no useful data (e.g. starting state of charge of each QC and starting and ending battery temps), at least not in the 1st few hours.

The thread has quickly blown up and I have no time to follow, nor do I really care since I have no plans to get at 40 kWh Leaf anyway. The lack of data (at least initially, not sure if it got better later) coupled w/FB's UI and problems that I pointed to http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=521264#p521264 all turn me off from spending time to discuss there.
 
There is a thread about this on Speak EV (mostly UK based owners). Pretty much everybody who has done a long trip has encountered the issue.

https://speakev.com/threads/worried-about-leaf-2-rapid-charging-rate.101025/
 
Forum posts with some data and/or pics

https://speakev.com/threads/worried-about-leaf-2-rapid-charging-rate.101025/page-27#post-1932705


https://speakev.com/threads/640-mile-run-in-a-40-kw-leaf.105657/
 
Eddiec said:
Forum posts with some data and/or pics

https://speakev.com/threads/worried-about-leaf-2-rapid-charging-rate.101025/page-27#post-1932705


https://speakev.com/threads/640-mile-run-in-a-40-kw-leaf.105657/
I skimmed a few pages. Are there any actual battery temp readings from Leaf Spy? The graphs are pointless unless we know what they represent.

The '11 thru '17 Leaf has a crappy temp graph. I believe these huge overlapping ranges apply from '11 thru model year '17: http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery#Battery_Temperature_Gauge. It's pointless, at least from my experience w/my '13. MUCH better to get actual battery temps from Leaf Spy.
 
cwerdna said:
Eddiec said:
Forum posts with some data and/or pics

https://speakev.com/threads/worried-about-leaf-2-rapid-charging-rate.101025/page-27#post-1932705


https://speakev.com/threads/640-mile-run-in-a-40-kw-leaf.105657/
I skimmed a few pages. Are there any actual battery temp readings from Leaf Spy? The graphs are pointless unless we know what they represent.

The '11 thru '17 Leaf has a crappy temp graph. I believe these huge overlapping ranges apply from '11 thru model year '17: http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery#Battery_Temperature_Gauge. It's pointless, at least from my experience w/my '13. MUCH better to get actual battery temps from Leaf Spy.


https://speakev.com/threads/black-tekna-aka-the-lemon.107641/page-2#post-1965737
 
Does the duration of the QC session affect whether the day's counter is incremented ?

The details matter a lot here. E.g., 90 minutes of full QC a day is a limit few would ever find a bother.
 
I am living in the south of France and I am awaiting my new LEAF 2.0 in a few weeks.
I already did some test drives in a demonstration LEAF 2 but didn't use more than a single quick charge.
Other new owners of the 40 kWh 2018 LEAF 2 , specially in the UK but also in France and in Norway, have tried several fast charges and have found out, that a second and even more a third charge, was going much slower. One owner did further tests (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yqz1VbBRU0 and thinks that the battery temperature is conditioning the charge power as follows:
24º C - 45 kW
30º C - 39 kW
36º C - 33 kW
40º C - 28 kW
43º C - 27 kW
48º C - 22 kW
All the tests were done, while outside temperatures were still quite low, around -5º to 8º C.
So, I wonder what will happen in summer, when environment temperatures go up to 30º C and more.
I also wonder whether this problem has already been found on a Smyrna LEAF 2 or whether this only exists on the European models produced in Sunderland, UK.
If the problem exists on US models, owners in Florida, California, Nevada or other southern states could give us some information what happens with multiple quick charging at higher outside temperatures...
 
cwleaf2 said:
One owner did further tests (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yqz1VbBRU0 and thinks that the battery temperature is conditioning the charge power as follows:
24º C - 45 kW
30º C - 39 kW
36º C - 33 kW
40º C - 28 kW
43º C - 27 kW
48º C - 22 kW
All the tests were done, while outside temperatures were still quite low, around -5º to 8º C.
So, I wonder what will happen in summer, when environment temperatures go up to 30º C and more.

The battery gets up to 40 centigrade with easy driving and cold ambient temps after one QC up to 50% ?!
And getting up to 24 C from driving in -5 - 8C weather ?

This all sounds like high temperature problems for the 40 kWh LEAF battery, and they are going to be that much worse in the summer.
 
Eddiec said:
cwerdna said:
Eddiec said:
Forum posts with some data and/or pics

https://speakev.com/threads/worried-about-leaf-2-rapid-charging-rate.101025/page-27#post-1932705


https://speakev.com/threads/640-mile-run-in-a-40-kw-leaf.105657/
I skimmed a few pages. Are there any actual battery temp readings from Leaf Spy? The graphs are pointless unless we know what they represent.

The '11 thru '17 Leaf has a crappy temp graph. I believe these huge overlapping ranges apply from '11 thru model year '17: http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery#Battery_Temperature_Gauge. It's pointless, at least from my experience w/my '13. MUCH better to get actual battery temps from Leaf Spy.


https://speakev.com/threads/black-tekna-aka-the-lemon.107641/page-2#post-1965737

47.4C? And this in UK in March. Ruh-roh.
 
This is shaping up to be a huge issue! A liquid TMS system cannot come fast enough for Nissan Leaf. In the video, the case was mentioned about using a fan to blow across the pack but this is proving to also be a fail in hot climates. Case in point is Kia Soul. Also, Hyundai is making that same mistake. Unless the air is cooled, and allowed to activate while also unattended, it will again be a fail. Liquid cooling (so far) has proven to be a better system. No TMS has proven to be a recipe for a short battery life in comparison to those that have one...
 
Nubo said:
Very strange that the throttling happens after the first one or two QC sessions. Edit: I misunderstood. It's the 3rd or 4th QC in a day that seems to be the problem. So the early squawks about rapid heating seem to be borne out. Or at least what the vehicle considers to be rapid heating. I'd be interested to know the actual temperatures.

throttling starts on QC if temp is over about 85º which is almost always going to be the 2nd session but its relatively minor with 16-17 kwh received in 30 mins instead of 22 kwh for a first charge.

The reality is it would not be good for a road trip in Summer over 300 miles. Under that, the additional range more than makes up for the charging speed.

FYI; This sounds bad but puts it on near equal footing with the Bolt. I saw a Bolt charging in temps low 70's in Sept pulling 130 amps from EVGO. I was impressed until it hit 55% and the charge rate dropped like a rock to 62 amps. It was... SHOCKING
 
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