cwerdna
Posts: 10740
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:17 am

I skimmed a few pages. Are there any actual battery temp readings from Leaf Spy? The graphs are pointless unless we know what they represent.

The '11 thru '17 Leaf has a crappy temp graph. I believe these huge overlapping ranges apply from '11 thru model year '17: http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Batt ... ture_Gauge. It's pointless, at least from my experience w/my '13. MUCH better to get actual battery temps from Leaf Spy.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Eddiec
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:42 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Dec 2015

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:14 am

cwerdna wrote:
I skimmed a few pages. Are there any actual battery temp readings from Leaf Spy? The graphs are pointless unless we know what they represent.

The '11 thru '17 Leaf has a crappy temp graph. I believe these huge overlapping ranges apply from '11 thru model year '17: http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Batt ... ture_Gauge. It's pointless, at least from my experience w/my '13. MUCH better to get actual battery temps from Leaf Spy.

https://speakev.com/threads/black-tekna ... st-1965737

SageBrush
Posts: 4911
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:57 am

Does the duration of the QC session affect whether the day's counter is incremented ?

The details matter a lot here. E.g., 90 minutes of full QC a day is a limit few would ever find a bother.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

cwleaf2
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:52 am
Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2018

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:16 pm

I am living in the south of France and I am awaiting my new LEAF 2.0 in a few weeks.
I already did some test drives in a demonstration LEAF 2 but didn't use more than a single quick charge.
Other new owners of the 40 kWh 2018 LEAF 2 , specially in the UK but also in France and in Norway, have tried several fast charges and have found out, that a second and even more a third charge, was going much slower. One owner did further tests (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yqz1VbBRU0 and thinks that the battery temperature is conditioning the charge power as follows:
24º C - 45 kW
30º C - 39 kW
36º C - 33 kW
40º C - 28 kW
43º C - 27 kW
48º C - 22 kW
All the tests were done, while outside temperatures were still quite low, around -5º to 8º C.
So, I wonder what will happen in summer, when environment temperatures go up to 30º C and more.
I also wonder whether this problem has already been found on a Smyrna LEAF 2 or whether this only exists on the European models produced in Sunderland, UK.
If the problem exists on US models, owners in Florida, California, Nevada or other southern states could give us some information what happens with multiple quick charging at higher outside temperatures...

SageBrush
Posts: 4911
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:10 pm

cwleaf2 wrote:One owner did further tests (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yqz1VbBRU0 and thinks that the battery temperature is conditioning the charge power as follows:
24º C - 45 kW
30º C - 39 kW
36º C - 33 kW
40º C - 28 kW
43º C - 27 kW
48º C - 22 kW
All the tests were done, while outside temperatures were still quite low, around -5º to 8º C.
So, I wonder what will happen in summer, when environment temperatures go up to 30º C and more.
The battery gets up to 40 centigrade with easy driving and cold ambient temps after one QC up to 50% ?!
And getting up to 24 C from driving in -5 - 8C weather ?

This all sounds like high temperature problems for the 40 kWh LEAF battery, and they are going to be that much worse in the summer.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
Nubo
Posts: 5701
Joined: Fri May 28, 2010 11:01 am
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2014
Location: Vallejo, CA

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:22 pm

Eddiec wrote:
cwerdna wrote:
I skimmed a few pages. Are there any actual battery temp readings from Leaf Spy? The graphs are pointless unless we know what they represent.

The '11 thru '17 Leaf has a crappy temp graph. I believe these huge overlapping ranges apply from '11 thru model year '17: http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Batt ... ture_Gauge. It's pointless, at least from my experience w/my '13. MUCH better to get actual battery temps from Leaf Spy.

https://speakev.com/threads/black-tekna ... st-1965737
47.4C? And this in UK in March. Ruh-roh.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

Evoforce
Posts: 924
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:25 pm

This is shaping up to be a huge issue! A liquid TMS system cannot come fast enough for Nissan Leaf. In the video, the case was mentioned about using a fan to blow across the pack but this is proving to also be a fail in hot climates. Case in point is Kia Soul. Also, Hyundai is making that same mistake. Unless the air is cooled, and allowed to activate while also unattended, it will again be a fail. Liquid cooling (so far) has proven to be a better system. No TMS has proven to be a recipe for a short battery life in comparison to those that have one...
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14877
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:02 pm

Nubo wrote:Very strange that the throttling happens after the first one or two QC sessions. Edit: I misunderstood. It's the 3rd or 4th QC in a day that seems to be the problem. So the early squawks about rapid heating seem to be borne out. Or at least what the vehicle considers to be rapid heating. I'd be interested to know the actual temperatures.
throttling starts on QC if temp is over about 85º which is almost always going to be the 2nd session but its relatively minor with 16-17 kwh received in 30 mins instead of 22 kwh for a first charge.

The reality is it would not be good for a road trip in Summer over 300 miles. Under that, the additional range more than makes up for the charging speed.

FYI; This sounds bad but puts it on near equal footing with the Bolt. I saw a Bolt charging in temps low 70's in Sept pulling 130 amps from EVGO. I was impressed until it hit 55% and the charge rate dropped like a rock to 62 amps. It was... SHOCKING
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15034
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:31 pm

FYI; This sounds bad but puts it on near equal footing with the Bolt.
Not if there is a battery heat issue underlying this.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Return to “General / Main Owners Forum”