dhanson865
Moderator
Posts: 1498
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:12 am
Leaf Number: 16156
Location: Tennessee

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:46 pm

Doesn't it throttle at about 20KW or still 3x faster than L2 charging on a new leaf?

If correct that is still x5 or x6 the speed my 3.x KW on board charger does. I drove back from NC on purchase of my used leaf 3 years ago with 2 chademo sessions and some Level 2 action (about 210 miles one way).

I wouldn't have needed as many chademo sessions if the 40 kWh pack gets me near twice as far per charge. I'd probably just make it home without doing any L2 with that pack.

I can't see buying a brand new Leaf with no TMS but if they put new packs in them when they hit 8 bars it might be an upgrade for us 24 kWh Leafers when the day comes you can get a 40 kWh Leaf under $10,000.
Blue 2012 Leaf 195/65/15 tires, 15" Rims
Silver 2012 Leaf 16" stock wheels
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index. ... acity_Loss
(efficiency 3.x KW vs 6.x KW)
please join Truedelta.com and input your repairs.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14877
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:56 pm

dhanson865 wrote:Doesn't it throttle at about 20KW or still 3x faster than L2 charging on a new leaf?

If correct that is still x5 or x6 the speed my 3.x KW on board charger does. I drove back from NC on purchase of my used leaf 3 years ago with 2 chademo sessions and some Level 2 action (about 210 miles one way).

I wouldn't have needed as many chademo sessions if the 40 kWh pack gets me near twice as far per charge. I'd probably just make it home without doing any L2 with that pack.

I can't see buying a brand new Leaf with no TMS but if they put new packs in them when they hit 8 bars it might be an upgrade for us 24 kWh Leafers when the day comes you can get a 40 kWh Leaf under $10,000.
you wouldn't have an issue....maybe 210 miles is one QC stop. But who knows? You might be limited to 20 kw based on ambient temps. Realize the LEAF has not seen Summer yet anywhere
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dhanson865
Moderator
Posts: 1498
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:12 am
Leaf Number: 16156
Location: Tennessee

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:00 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:you wouldn't have an issue....maybe 210 miles is one QC stop. But who knows? You might be limited to 20 kw based on ambient temps. Realize the LEAF has not seen Summer yet anywhere
So ~20 KW means that Chademo stop might be 1.5 to 2 hours depending on how low you got.

What was it at best ~50 KW taking 45 minutes to fill up?
Blue 2012 Leaf 195/65/15 tires, 15" Rims
Silver 2012 Leaf 16" stock wheels
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index. ... acity_Loss
(efficiency 3.x KW vs 6.x KW)
please join Truedelta.com and input your repairs.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14877
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:09 pm

dhanson865 wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:you wouldn't have an issue....maybe 210 miles is one QC stop. But who knows? You might be limited to 20 kw based on ambient temps. Realize the LEAF has not seen Summer yet anywhere
So ~20 KW means that Chademo stop might be 1.5 to 2 hours depending on how low you got.

What was it at best ~50 KW taking 45 minutes to fill up?
Oh no chance! Highest SOC for ramp down I have seen is 60% SOC. My S 30 averaged 46 KW once but that was on 125 amp AV starting at 5% SOC.

Filling up at DCFC is a fool's game. Wouldn't even guess as to how long it would take. I watched a LEAF (24 kwh I believe) go from 90% to done in just about 15 minutes. Guessing it likely stopped around 94-95%
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

borugee
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:06 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Mar 2018
Location: Dallas TX

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:10 pm

The issue is real, Some QC charging stations charge by the minute, so it is not only our time is wated, our money is wasted, while waiting. Here is my experience on a 80F-85F day, doing 2 - QCs. 1st QC started slowing down around 60%. 2nd QC was slow all the way when my battery was at 20%. However my battery gauge on car never hit RED. Leaf SPY temp. was 112F after the 2nd QC.

Check out my Leaf Spy graphs. (Not looking good). Issue for Nissan is probably they can't fix this on software. They need a way to cool the battery. When you charge batteries heat up. Higher the density, more heat it generate, and need to decipate. (40kWh battery same size as 24kWh)


First QC Graph
https://drive.google.com/open?id=11NoxZ ... 42Ze3MzWhf

Second QC Graph
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1185z8 ... 6LwIP6dRHV
Borugee
2018 SL ; 03/18 Delivery ; Dallas TX ; @10k Mile ; SOH=94.83,AHr=109.47,Hx=109.12

cwleaf2
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:52 am
Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2018

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:27 am

borugee wrote:The issue is real, Some QC charging stations charge by the minute, so it is not only our time is wated, our money is wasted, while waiting. Here is my experience on a 80F-85F day, doing 2 - QCs. 1st QC started slowing down around 60%. 2nd QC was slow all the way when my battery was at 20%. However my battery gauge on car never hit RED. Leaf SPY temp. was 112F after the 2nd QC.

Check out my Leaf Spy graphs. (Not looking good). Issue for Nissan is probably they can't fix this on software. They need a way to cool the battery. When you charge batteries heat up. Higher the density, more heat it generate, and need to decipate. (40kWh battery same size as 24kWh)


First QC Graph
https://drive.google.com/open?id=11NoxZ ... 42Ze3MzWhf

Second QC Graph
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1185z8 ... 6LwIP6dRHV
Thanks for your data. It is very interesting to finally hear about problems on the US model of the 40 kWh LEAF II.

But to get a detailed picture, I would need more information like:

Are you sure that this particular charger can deliver 45 to 50 kW to your 40 kWh LEAF? Does it do so on your 30 kWh LEAF?

Do you have LeafSpy Pro logs about several complete charges from low battery (10-20%) up to some 80% SOH?

Thank you very much for your help.
Last edited by cwleaf2 on Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

cwerdna
Posts: 10740
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:40 am

cwleaf2 wrote: Thanks for your data. It is very interesting to finally hear about problems on the US model of the 40 kWh LEAF II.

But to get a detailed picture, I would need more information like:

Are you sure that this particular charger can deliver 45 to 50 kWh to your 40 kWh LEAF? Does it do so on your 30 kWh LEAF?
Charge rate is measured in kW, not kWh. You have the units correct for battery capacity.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwleaf2
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:52 am
Delivery Date: 20 Apr 2018

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:47 am

cwerdna wrote:
cwleaf2 wrote: Thanks for your data. It is very interesting to finally hear about problems on the US model of the 40 kWh LEAF II.

But to get a detailed picture, I would need more information like:

Are you sure that this particular charger can deliver 45 to 50 kW to your 40 kWh LEAF? Does it do so on your 30 kWh LEAF?
Charge rate is measured in kW, not kWh. You have the units correct for battery capacity.
Sorry, typo - corrected!

alozzy
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Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:30 am

Given the weasel wording in the Owner's manual, it's pretty clear the aggressive charge rate throttling is by design. Pretty cynical of Nissan to not make this clear to prospective buyers, particularly to naive first time EV buyers...

It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me personally, and it might even result in quicker depreciation of 2018s once word spreads to the broader EV community. As a result, I'm hopefully that I'll get a good deal on a used 2018 in a few years.

Pretty brutal though for people who've taken the plunge and purchased a 2018, trusting that Nissan would have disclosed something like this.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
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kennethbokor
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:35 pm
Delivery Date: 30 May 2018
Location: Caledon, ON Canada
Contact: Twitter

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:10 pm

Yes am seeing all the attention this is getting #rapidgate. Some good data is coming but definitely I feel is deliberate safety feature put in by Nissan to prolong battery life.

I agree, for many people this will not be a deal breaker, however also agree Nissan should say something and they can spin this into a positive. I'm hoping that maybe they can tweak software to not restrict rapid charging as much during second or third or even 4th. Ease up a bit on the throttling back of charging input. I would think after 4 successive rapid charges, I would want to take a break and rest overnight somewhere as well as let the pack cool down.

Seems all the theories are similar in the fact that Nissan packed more cells into the same space (good=more energy density), however will less modules (good=saves some weight) seems the heat build up can dissipate enough with the passive cooling (bad=higher battery temps, bad=need more time for the pack to cool after rapid charge). I thought that the chemistry change would help with heat build up, but it seems to have not to as much.

Many YouTubers are talking about this and we will also mention it on our next show coming up in a few days (Model 3 Owners Club - but name is changing this next show!). Check it out.

I'm actually going to be meeting with some Nissan Canada and North America execs next month and hope they will respond with some positive news on this.

Regardless, for my driving needs, the new Leaf works and I am not cancelling my order.
---------
New Leaf Owner: Just ordered Feb 24 2018, 2018 Leaf SL in Jade Frost. Expected ETA by May 30 2018.

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