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Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 8:57 am
by EVDRIVER
Consider how costly that will be to make those packs that long unless they keep suing the same design. Unlike stockpiling parts packs don't have a shelf life. Should be interesting to see how they handle that.

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:04 am
by SageBrush
EVDRIVER wrote: Unlike stockpiling parts packs don't have a shelf life. Should be interesting to see how they handle that.
Yup.

This is actually why I am skeptical of the entire idea of buying a replacement pack aside from cost.
@DaveInOly likes to say that packs are a JIT production item but is that really true, and even if true in the past, will it be true here on out ?

Only the new owners of the battery plant know for sure.

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 3:40 pm
by Lothsahn
SageBrush wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:Likely they are trying to move from their old battery design going forward. Consider how costly it will be to warranty packs if they go to a new design, it's not like they can make a bunch of extras and store them. If they had a design that they could continue to use going forward it would make sense to sell replacements, if they go to TMS this will be an issue. Going forward it will make more sense to buy a new car based on the present landscape.
The last 24 kWh LEAFs were sold in 2016, so they have to provide warranty packs at least into 2021. Consumer bought packs appear to be only a very small fraction of the total Nissan will deliver.

This is not making sense to me.

Perhaps $8500 is for the 30 kWh pack ?
I can assure you it's a 24 kWh pack. I specifically asked this and I was told that retrofitting a 30 kWh pack was not possible with my car, due to differences in wiring between the 24 and 30 kWh. Honestly, I'd think if it was a priority, the engineering could be done to retrofit a 30 kWh, but I understand that would require engineering that Nissan would rather spend on new vehicles.

Either way, it was $7000 (plus tax and labor) for a 24 kWh pack, so with labor and tax that should be around $8500.

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 5:23 pm
by Nubo
alozzy wrote:Seems like Nissan is pricing this deliberately high so that almost no one takes them up on the offer...
Also known as the "go away" price.

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 6:27 pm
by borugee
Is Nissan done with EVs? Do they want customers to go away?

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:34 pm
by alozzy
No, but they expect you to buy a new EV from them every 3 - 5 years it seems, since they are pricing replacement packs so high that effectively the car becomes disposable when the range is no longer enough. So much for environmental responsibility. I think some laws need to be passed to force EV manufacturers to foot the bill for reconditioning or recycling these packs, if this new attitude from Nissan becomes the norm. Good luck with that from a Trump government though.

For anyone living in a hot climate, purchasing a new 2018 LEAF would be nuts - you are far better off leasing. Hopefully the 2019 with TMS will have more longevity, so the original pack will still have useful range after 10 years.

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:43 pm
by Nubo
borugee wrote:Is Nissan done with EVs? Do they want customers to go away?
Nah. Their new cars are priced competitively. They just don't want you bothering them for a battery replacement. It's not part of their plan. If it had been, the batteries would have been plug-and-play and backwards compatible between model years -- allowing an older car to not only refresh the battery but gain added range beyond new. But they apparently didn't sufficiently value the customer loyalty that would have encouraged.

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 2:54 am
by cwerdna
If this turns out to be true, not a temporary snafu and the price for a new 24 kWh battery for the near to medium term and there's no ~$2850 10+ "refurbished" battery for the US, this is VERY bad news. :(

Very few people will want to fork over this kind of $ on a car that has little value by the time the driver wants a replacement. If it were a 30 or 40 kWh battery, the % of folks willing to pay this price would go up.

Nissan did claim at the time of the $5499 announcement (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 8&p=374490) that they were losing money (subventing): https://insideevs.com/nissan-says-leaf- ... ney-loser/.

Perhaps now that AESC (NEC and Nissan JV) has been sold to a Chinese company, they're getting stiffed or that Chinese company at least wants some profit? Maybe Nissan's tired of making $0 or losing $?

One would've figured that the per kWh cost should've come down in an almost 4 year time span...

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 5:24 am
by powersurge
If I am to believe this new $8500 battery price, then they are doing the same business model as the cordless drill business. Their batteries only last a few years. When you want to buy new batteries, they cost $110 each, while NEW drills with the batteries are only $200.

HOWEVER... With such a large base of Leaf owners, I cannot imagine that the cells in the battery pack are so exclusive that only Nissan can provide them. I am SURE that other companies make the same battery cells, and a company can find a way to replace the cells in the original battery pack.... Not requiring any other new tech to make the pack compatible to the car...

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:21 am
by Stanton
Nubo wrote:
alozzy wrote:Seems like Nissan is pricing this deliberately high so that almost no one takes them up on the offer...
Also known as the "go away" price.
Agreed...and very disappointing. While I would consider (another) battery pack replacement, this seems at odds with overall price trends.