Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

[hmmwv]

This price hike really is the last straw as, I went to the new LEAF event and really like their ProPilot, I was seriously considering the 2019 60KWh LEAF e-plus, but now I will not get one and not recommend any Nissan vehicles to anyone based on their business practices. I'm glad I got mine certified pre-owned so didn't pay nearly as much as MSRP, the deprecation on the other hand will pretty much wipe out any operational cost savings by the time I get rid of the car.

I wish there are businesses that specialize in swapping the LEAF cells by reusing good cells from salvaged packs, can this be a profitable venture if price is set at about half of what Nissan is charging for new packs?

[mihird]

Providing an affordable battery replacement option should be a first and foremost commitment of every EV manufacturer. If a car can't live to 200,000 miles, its really not a car just ready to compete with ICE cars. yet

Tesla is better at supporting cars long term. Most Model S cars that have reached 200,000 miles are still being well supported by Tesla, including offers of a $10,000-$12,000 battery replacement pack.

Only a matter of time, before a lot of Leaf enthusiasts will move to the $35,000 Tesla car...

[WetEV]

Only a matter of time, before a lot of Leaf enthusiasts will move to the $35,000 Tesla car...

Assuming there ever is a $35,000 Tesla car.

[McHoffa]

The way I've been treated by Tesla so far is like night and day. Also, two 1800 mile road trips later I can say this is the best EV available.

Sure, when the company has lost north of $5.5 billion so far (maybe $6 billion, need to update my spreadsheet) and has racked up debt of over $10 billion (see page 59 of http://ir.tesla.com/node/18946/html). They lost over $700 million last quarter alone (see page 5 and note those figures are in thousands).

It's "easy" to create products with great performance, provide good service and create a great SC network when making money or just breaking even "doesn't" matter.

Ahem.

Build a Gigafactory
Build a PV factory
Build not one but TWO car production lines
Build out the Supercharger network at a pace unheard of, a magnitude faster than all the others combined.

... And expect to be profitable from Q3 onwards.

Exactly... they could have been profitable a long time ago if they were fine with just making the S and X. But no, they had to keep spending money to create the Model 3, the best car I've driven in my 24 years of driving.

[McHoffa]

The Nissan dealer did call me back and agree to install the battery at my price of $8200. I do not blame the dealer for the problem. It is Nissan that has quietly increased the battery price and yet allowed buyers to still believe they could buy a use Leaf and replace the battery at $5500 plus some labor. And nowhere have I ever heard of an adapter kit necessary to do the replacement.

To be clear. I still love my Leaf. It is a well built car. It is comfortable to drive and I have had no maintenance issues with it. Now that I am getting a new battery and with it better range I am even happier with it. But at this point I would still never recommend a Leaf to anyone. They are too expensive to buy and then have to essentially throw away after because of the battery life issue. Other EV's with liquid cooled battery packs have longer lives and would be a much better choice.

People hate expensive repairs. They will go out and buy something new for 3-5x the repair cost and grumble less.
I'm not sure it is rational.

It's rational, because who wants to spend that much money on an older car that's bound to start having other issues, vs a new car that's in warranty. I used to only drive cheap used cars. Sure it cost me less, but man, when you suddenly have to come up with a couple thousand to be able to get to work, etc, or you get stranded on the side of the road multiple times in a year, it really sucks. It's worth the new car cost to avoid that.

[McHoffa]

Only a matter of time, before a lot of Leaf enthusiasts will move to the $35,000 Tesla car...

Assuming there ever is a $35,000 Tesla car.

For those waiting for that one, their delivery estimate just dropped from 6-9 months to 5-8 months. It's coming.

[McHoffa]

Sure, when the company has lost north of $5.5 billion so far (maybe $6 billion, need to update my spreadsheet) and has racked up debt of over $10 billion (see page 59 of http://ir.tesla.com/node/18946/html). They lost over $700 million last quarter alone (see page 5 and note those figures are in thousands).

It's "easy" to create products with great performance, provide good service and create a great SC network when making money or just breaking even "doesn't" matter.

Ahem.

Build a Gigafactory
Build a PV factory
Build not one but TWO car production lines
Build out the Supercharger network at a pace unheard of, a magnitude faster than all the others combined.

... And expect to be profitable from Q3 onwards.

Sigh... I already went thru this before: http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=509755#p509755 and http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=509813#p509813.

The fanboys like to claim Tesla is profitable with their cars. Ok. There is positive gross profit. But that ALREADY subtracts out the amortized cost of the above capex. Building all those things you described comes out of CASH and doesn't directly by itself upfront count as part of expense. For vehicles, it is spread out over time as part of cost of automotive revenues which fanboys like to point out is profitable and also make the claim that margins are higher than everyone else. (But, it seems like other automakers (at least Ford and GM, haven't checked all others) don't have a separate line item for R&D. They include it in cost of automotive revenues, so of course their apparent gross margin will be lower and Tesla's will be inflated.)

You keep a spreadsheet on Tesla's losses per quarter?

"The fanboys"?

and, with that, I'm outta here...

I love my Tesla. My Leaf would just be "ok" if it weren't losing battery capacity to the point of being useless for us. Thanks to my experience with Nissan over this and the 2g -> 3g upgrade and my great experience for the past 5 months with my Model 3, next car will be another Tesla.

If being happy with a product because it looks good, performs well, and is better than any of the EV competition (at least for the foreseeable future) makes me a fanboy, then so be it. I was considering a new Leaf for our second car next year just six months ago. Never again, and I will steer everyone away from them now.

[SageBrush]

It's rational, because who wants

Funny.

[cwerdna]

You keep a spreadsheet on Tesla's losses per quarter?

Yes, so I can keep track of the actual numbers for each year they report (and quarters for when an entire year hasn't passed), add them up AND have URLs and page numbers of the actual sources (from their SEC filings). All of this means I have an easy reference and don't need to keep repeating work.

Previously, I had some totals and even posted them, but that was years ago, so I'd keep having to refer back, add on the new numbers and so on. That's a waste of time.

[proudapron]

Politics aside, can we confirm pack replacements are really $8500? I called a dealer today and they said anywhere from $4k to $9k, seems like quite the range...