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Re: Long Term Reliability of the 30kWh Battery Pack

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:48 pm
by OrientExpress
Here is the dealer communication:

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Re: Long Term Reliability of the 30kWh Battery Pack

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:49 pm
by cwerdna
^^^
Thank you.

The above pages were also posted at https://www.facebook.com/groups/NissanL ... 22R2%22%7D. Interesting.

Re: Long Term Reliability of the 30kWh Battery Pack

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:04 pm
by edatoakrun
So, nissan says that after the update, the capacity bar display will now be "accurate".

Forgive me, but has Nissan ever stated what "accurate" capacity each bar represents?

All Nissan was ever willing to say about the "24 kWh" pack capacity, was that four bars lost represented approximately 30% of new capacity.

Re: Long Term Reliability of the 30kWh Battery Pack

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:41 am
by DaveinOlyWA
edatoakrun wrote:So, nissan says that after the update, the capacity bar display will now be "accurate".

Forgive me, but has Nissan ever stated what "accurate" capacity each bar represents?

All Nissan was ever willing to say about the "24 kWh" pack capacity, was that four bars lost represented approximately 30% of new capacity.
The bars will not change. They are simply a representation of the state of the car. They are NOT to be considered as digital representations of anything as they all have deltas in which the appear or disappear making them only guidelines at best.

The general state of Nissan instrumentation will not help either. But at least they show "something"

Most other EV manufacturers don't have the guts.

Re: Long Term Reliability of the 30kWh Battery Pack

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:43 am
by goldbrick
This is all very interesting and I guess even though it is voluntary I probably don't have much say over how my warranty gets handled since the firmware that controls the bars is entirely under Nissan's control.

That said, I just went 80.5 miles in the last few days since my last charge to 91% (per the dash) and now the dash shows SOC = 37% so something doesn't add up...

SOH per LeafSpyPro was 94.5% yesterday after being consistently down around 92% for most of the Spring.

Re: Long Term Reliability of the 30kWh Battery Pack

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:14 am
by edatoakrun
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:So, nissan says that after the update, the capacity bar display will now be "accurate".

Forgive me, but has Nissan ever stated what "accurate" capacity each bar represents?

All Nissan was ever willing to say about the "24 kWh" pack capacity, was that four bars lost represented approximately 30% of new capacity.
The bars will not change. They are simply a representation of the state of the car. They are NOT to be considered as digital representations of anything ...
Yes, and the same can be said for the grossly inaccurate LBC estimates of battery capacity, which are used to inform the bar displays.

Unfortunately, most "30 kWh" pack LEAF owners seem to have been just as willing to make fools of themselves, as most "24 kWh" pack owners have over the years, when they took LBC data seriously as accurate data on pack capacity.

So, with is campaign, Nissan will now change the LBC readings on "30 kWh" packs, allegedly to make them less inaccurate, just like it claimed it was trying to do for our "24 kWh" LEAFs.

That effort was a failure, as the higher-capacity LBC readings soon drifted back to ~the same level of extreme inaccuracy, as confirmed by recharge and range tests on my LEAF and others' at the time.

But, maybe this time it will be different?

If any of you "30 kWh" pack owners want to find out, I suggest you try to learn what you have neglected to learn to date, how to monitor your pack capacity accurately, using objective methods, and entirely ignoring the garbage data from your LBC, and that you do so before you accept Nissans "corrective" campaign.

Re: Long Term Reliability of the 30kWh Battery Pack

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:11 pm
by coupedncal
edatoakrun wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:So, nissan says that after the update, the capacity bar display will now be "accurate".

If any of you "30 kWh" pack owners want to find out, I suggest you try to learn what you have neglected to learn to date, how to monitor your pack capacity accurately, using objective methods, and entirely ignoring the garbage data from your LBC, and that you do so before you accept Nissans "corrective" campaign.
How do we propose we do this? Use LeafSpy type tool?

I am confused by this apparent fix from Nissan as even the LeafSpy tool was reporting lower values and thereby implying the battery storage capacity was dropping rapidly on these 30 kWh models. Am I correct with this statement? This fix will resolve the dashboard inaccuracies but wasn't LeafSpy tapping the batteries directly and LeafSpy did not use the input from the dash?

Re: Long Term Reliability of the 30kWh Battery Pack

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:19 pm
by LeftieBiker
I believe he's referring to controlled, repeated range testing and careful measurements of charge and discharge energy. LeafSpy reads its data from the "LBC" so it may not be reliable if the info from the BMS is incorrect.

Re: Long Term Reliability of the 30kWh Battery Pack

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:47 pm
by alozzy
What a mess! If I owned a 2016/2017 with a 30 kWh pack, I'd be worried that this software "fix" is simply an effort by Nissan to ensure that they don't end up with having to replace a bunch of degraded 30 kWh packs under warranty. I guess owners are just supposed to take it on faith that Nissan is actually fixing a software bug, rather than pulling a Volkswagen con job.

This industry is just screaming for standardized, independent measuring and assessment of battery pack health so that consumers can have assurance that they aren't getting scammed.

This sounds like another class action law suit on the boil...

Re: Long Term Reliability of the 30kWh Battery Pack

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:04 pm
by edatoakrun
alozzy wrote: ...This industry is just screaming for standardized, independent measuring and assessment of battery pack health so that consumers can have assurance that they aren't getting scammed...
We did have just such a program, until it was abruptly cancelled by the present administration, in one of the less-reported actions in its war on science.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 17#p499817
INL's AVTA EV testing terminated

Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:19 pm
edatoakrun wrote:I've been wondering why this page has not been updated in many months:

https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-type/all-po ... chitecture

In response to my inquiry:
INL spokesperson:

Thanks again for your interest in INL's work producing the AVTA reports. As you probably know, INL is part of the Department of Energy's national laboratory system and receives much of its research funding and direction from DOE.

To answer your question about the light-duty vehicle testing, federal funding for the project has ended because the EV industry is maturing, which lessens the need for taxpayer-funded testing and data collection.
It is extremely disappointing that the only program that has been independently monitoring manufacturer's claims of BEV/PHEV/BEVx initial battery capacity (total and available) and battery capacity loss over time has been terminated.

This will leave EV owners with few sources of battery capacity data, apart from the inaccurate (and easily manipulated) BMS reports provided by manufacturer's.

The much-more reliable data on charge accepted can only be collected (with some effort) allowing calculation of available battery capacity by owners of EV's for which charge/discharge efficiency reports were previously collected by the AVTA, and published at the site above.

Main threads discussing AVTA testing of initial battery capacity and capacity loss over time for 2011-13 LEAFs below:

2011 LEAF discussion:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=13265

2012 LEAF discussion:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=14271

2013 LEAF discussion:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=18555