theschoolbus
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:48 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: Low prices on older Leafs grabbed my attention, now what?

Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:43 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
* The mileage estimator ("Guess O Meter" or GOM) is of little value in determining the actual range of a used Leaf.
Ha, I saw "GOM" elsewhere but didn't know what it was referring to. I actually tracked this guy on one of our diesel cars...

Below is what the trip computer showed throughout a single tank of fuel. I captured data each time (segment) I drove the car during that tank.

The blue is actual miles driven, the gray is what the trip computer said remained. The sum of the two is in big font and shows how the sum varies throughout the tank. This turned out to be typical that it was very optimistic during the tank and then started to converge when the tank started getting low:
Image

I then did my own basic algorithm with some assumptions and that worked out much better (ie the sum of actual + my prediction throughout the tank better matched the final actual result):
Image

I then did the same for several tanks and overlaid those results with matching line styles for each pair. You can see the consistently optimistic early/mid tank numbers vs the actual final results:
Image

It was at least good to understand what was going on.



And then separately, but related, I was able to tweak the car's trip computer for it's MPG accuracy. There's a setting that defaults to 100 and you can raise or lower to tune it.

This car was about 5% optimistic from the factory and I now have it much more accurate with a 106 setting:
Image

LeftieBiker
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Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Low prices on older Leafs grabbed my attention, now what?

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:53 am

theschoolbus wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:The Bose system sounds better, especially if adjusted via the audio menu.

QC was optional on non-SL models up until 2015, IIRC. I drove a 4/2013 SV with Premium but no QC for 5 years. The real gem in the Premium package is the 360 degree "Around View" 4 parking camera system. It really makes parking in tight spots a breeze, via synthesized view from about 15' above the center of the car, showing the spaces around it. Those Nissan bas, er, executives deleted the Premium Package for 2018, making those features standard on the SL and not available on the SV.

The ranges being quoted in the listings are way too high. Figure about 65 miles for a (now rare) solid 12 bars, 55 miles for 11, and 50-60% of those figures in frigid Winter weather, depending on whether or not the car has the heatpump-equipped heater..
The top-view is definitely something I'd want. Thanks for pointing out that's only in certain vehicles. Is there something else physical that feature directly correlates to that I could see in photos? I think I understand if it has the Bose amp in the trunk, then it has Premium, and thus has the Around View? Or is that not always the case? And are there times when it has Around View, but not necessarily Bose amp?

Hmm, that range does make me 2nd guess if this is right for me...

Thanks,
Mark
If you see a photo of a Leaf's nose, look for a tiny round camera lens in the Nissan emblem, at the bottom. This indicates Around View and thus Premium Package. Likewise black glass camera ports on the bottoms of the side mirrors, and a button labeled "Camera" on the infotainment unit screen periphery. Premium Package always consists of the Around View and Bose stereo. If there is another element, my foggy brain is forgetting it.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Re: Low prices on older Leafs grabbed my attention, now what?

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:56 am

Ha, I saw "GOM" elsewhere but didn't know what it was referring to. I actually tracked this guy on one of our diesel cars...

Below is what the trip computer showed throughout a single tank of fuel. I captured data each time (segment) I drove the car during that tank.

The blue is actual miles driven, the gray is what the trip computer said remained. The sum of the two is in big font and shows how the sum varies throughout the tank. This turned out to be typical that it was very optimistic during the tank and then started to converge when the tank started getting low:
The GOM estimate does tend to converge with reality as the end of a trip approaches. So just as you arrive at your destination, you finally know whether or not you can get there. ;) The SV and SL have a better range estimator buried in the Nav system, as I note in the Tips & Tricks guide.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 7&p=482154
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeafTaxi
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:54 am
Delivery Date: 14 Jan 2019

Re: Low prices on older Leafs grabbed my attention, now what?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:08 pm

  • ignore the "miles remaining". Just pay attention to the "energy bars" on the far-right. When you identify a possible purchase, then add LeafSpy data.
  • Don't bother with 2011/2012. Look at 2013+.
  • You mention "nicer features." I have the S with quick-charge, and the things I miss are heat pump heater, heated rear seats, heated side mirrors, and LED headlights. I can't think of any other features I've wished I had. If I lived in a warmer climate, I may not care about most of those.
  • If you can manage to get access to an outlet at work (even a 15A outlet), then you can add 24 to 36 miles' range during your workday. That can significantly improve the usefulness of the car.
  • Plan for having 30% less range for days below freezing, and 50% less for days below 0F. When you first get the LEAF, you'll probably want to arrive home with 40% charge left, but within 2 years, you'll be comfortable arriving home with 10%.
  • In a "gas/electric hybrid household" with LEAF + gas car, you'll probably end-up using the Leaf for more short trips than you are imagining now. And you'll get a better feel for when you need to take a gas car instead (like days when you need to make an extra stop or two). No matter what range car you end up buying, you'll figure-out how to put it to the best use. You don't need a LEAF that can handle 100% of your workdays; enough range for 60%-80% of workdays is still good.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Low prices on older Leafs grabbed my attention, now what?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:39 pm

ignore the "miles remaining". Just pay attention to the "energy bars" on the far-right. When you identify a possible purchase, then add LeafSpy data.
Don't bother with 2011/2012. Look at 2013+.
If the 2011-2012 leafs are excluded, the other years all have a SOC display option, and THAT is what you want to watch, not the 'energy bars.'
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SueC56
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 5:57 pm
Delivery Date: 16 May 2019
Location: Cedar Falls IA

Re: Low prices on older Leafs grabbed my attention, now what?

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:41 pm

Back to the topic of Around View and Bose. There is a 2013 SL for sale: https://www.theinternetcarlot.com/detai ... 23159.html

It has Bose (they do show the Bose speaker). But it does not have Around View, no camera button on the display, in fact I don't even see a backup camera on the hatch/tailgate. No cameras on the side mirrors, as far as I can tell. What gives? Bose and Around View are supposed to go hand in hand as part of the Premium package, right?

FYI The low price is because this car has a salvage title history, so has had front end body parts replaced. But I don't *think* that is pertinent to this question.

I'm so confused. I thought I had this pretty well figured out. LOL.
on this page: https://insideevs.com/news/317058/2013- ... fications/
it shows the Rearview monitor as optional on the S (but not listed for the SV, SL) and of course the Around View optional for the SL.
Does that mean the SV, SL don't have back up camera option?

Here's a link to the sales brochure:
http://www.auto-brochures.com/makes/Nis ... f_2013.pdf

TIA

Sue C
Cedar Falls IA
LEAF owner-wannabe
Sue C
2016 Nissan LEAF SL
9500 miles
purchased 8/3/19

SueC56
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 5:57 pm
Delivery Date: 16 May 2019
Location: Cedar Falls IA

Re: Low prices on older Leafs grabbed my attention, now what?

Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:45 pm

Okay, I searched the Forum and answered the question about the 2013 backup camera. All 2014+ have it, not 2013.

Though I'm still a little weirded out about the car having BOSE but not Around View. Oh well. No backup camera = no buy.

Just when I thought I understood the options. Sigh.

Sue C
Sue C
2016 Nissan LEAF SL
9500 miles
purchased 8/3/19

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
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Re: Low prices on older Leafs grabbed my attention, now what?

Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:24 am

Back to the topic of Around View and Bose. There is a 2013 SL for sale: https://www.theinternetcarlot.com/detai ... 23159.html

It has Bose (they do show the Bose speaker). But it does not have Around View, no camera button on the display, in fact I don't even see a backup camera on the hatch/tailgate. No cameras on the side mirrors, as far as I can tell. What gives? Bose and Around View are supposed to go hand in hand as part of the Premium package, right?
It's a new one to me, too. My best guess - and it is only a guess - is that someone added the Bose stereo from a wreck. The Bose system and around view do, in fact, go together. This could be a factory glitch like the SV that came with a leather lower rear seat, but I'm inclined to think it was from a parts car.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Lothsahn
Posts: 435
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 007797

Re: Low prices on older Leafs grabbed my attention, now what?

Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:29 pm

I disagree with the "exclude all 2011/2012" comment. 2011 and 2012 models are very capable short-range EVs. As long as the battery health is good, I would happily recommend a 2011/2012 to anyone with modest range needs.

DO NOT buy a Leaf made before 4/2013 UNLESS it's had its main traction battery replaced (not 12V battery) or it's at an EXCELLENT price and you don't need the range. A new battery is an $8000-$8500 cost.

Note: I've owned 2 2011 Leafs: 7 bar and 12 bar.
12 bar (87% SOH): ~60 miles in the summer and around 35-40 in the winter with the heat on.
7 (57% SOH): 35-40 miles in the summer and 20 in the winter with the heat on.

We love our 12-bar 2011 w/ 2015 battery.

For a 2011/2012, you will lose the 6kw charger, heat pump, heated seats/wheel (2011 only), and the nag screen appears every time the car is started. However, you always get the larger central console display, a higher quality backup camera, and usually a large discount over the 2013+ models.
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
LeafSpy Pro + BAFX Products OBDII dongle
Battery swap 2019/04/24 (87% SOH, 12 bar)

LeftieBiker
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Re: Low prices on older Leafs grabbed my attention, now what?

Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:59 pm

I disagree with the "exclude all 2011/2012" comment.
If you are quoting my buying guide above, not that it doesn't say "exclude all 2011/2012." It says "DO NOT BUY a Leaf from this era unless the battery pack has been replaced after 2014, or unless your range needs are very modest (less than 40 miles) and you want to pay as little as possible."
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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