GRA
Posts: 11815
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Long trip...saw one electric car

Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:26 pm

SageBrush wrote:It is more than silly to stick to a gas guzzler for AWD.
Put on decent snow tyres and off you go ... with better safety than AWD will ever give.
We've already had that argument at length and neither of us has changed the other's mind, so no need to repeat it here. Suffice it to say that our situations are significantly different. If my situation were yours I'd likely make the same choice as you, but as it isn't, I don't.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 14671
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Long trip...saw one electric car

Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:00 pm

So, GRA: is it some sort of secret what you drive, or did I overlook you mentioning it? I'm not looking for anything but to satisfy my curiosity, especially as to why you don't drive a PHEV. Unless, of course, you do...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

WetEV
Posts: 3655
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Long trip...saw one electric car

Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:41 pm

GRA wrote:It all depends on the price and features. Shorter-range BEVs for routine urban use can make sense now, but will make a lot more sense when they are priced at $20k or better yet, $15k.
There is no magic price that convinces everyone.
GRA wrote:However, even people whose use case isn't skewed towards one end of the spectrum as mine is want a car that will allow them to go anywhere they want to (at least on paved roads), whenever they want to with flexibility and convenience, and at the moment only ICEs and their supporting fueling infrastructure allow that.
Again, there is no magic range or amount of infrastructure that convinces everyone. Everyone has a different list of wants and needs. As the price for a given range decreases, and the maximum range you can buy increases, more people will be interested. More people driving, more infrastructure will be built... And so on.

GRA wrote:I anticipate we'll see the first sub-$40k MSRP 300+ mile EPA BEV in 3-5 years,
Trend suggests more like 350+ mile range for under $40k in that time period.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

cwerdna
Posts: 10415
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Long trip...saw one electric car

Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:48 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:So, GRA: is it some sort of secret what you drive, or did I overlook you mentioning it? I'm not looking for anything but to satisfy my curiosity, especially as to why you don't drive a PHEV. Unless, of course, you do...
I thought he drives some sort of non-hybrid non-plugin Subaru.
viewtopic.php?p=552813#p552813
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=25102&p=561141&hil ... ru#p561141

If it's that, it's a bit piggy in terms of FE by today's standards: https://fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=19230. Unfortunately, the smog/emissions score is missing for CA, so I'm not clear (w/o further digging) whether it qualified for PZEV status. It's also n/a at https://www.driveclean.ca.gov/searchres ... D&x=34&y=8.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 14671
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Long trip...saw one electric car

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:04 pm

Right, thanks. 2003 Forester. They just came out with a Toyota-Powered Subaru something or other PHEV. I forget if that has AWD, but think it does. The AER is unimpressive, but in GRA's case the AER isn't very relevant anyway - just the MPG and emissions.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 10415
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Long trip...saw one electric car

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:26 pm

I and likely many others (definitely at least one other person here who I've talked to in person about this) are puzzled by how one can spend so much time here and be on here for so long, posting about BEVs, PHEVs and charging infrastructure to not have either a BEV or PHEV.

I'd have gotten a Leaf earlier than July 2013 if my personal circumstances weren't different prior to that month... I'd even paid Nissan's deposit twice. Was refunded the first time due to hitting an end date (something like that), so I put in another, which was eventually refunded too, since it became moot. I test drove pre-production Leafs at Southcenter Mall in Tukwila (near Seattle) back in Nov 2010. IIRC, they didn't have the noisemakers.

Seems like GRA should go spring for cheap used Leaf w/CHAdeMO or something so he can at least experience L1, L2 and DC FCing.

If he doesn't like or want Teslas, Bolts in Nor Cal are pretty cheap. Get one with a DC FC inlet and either a Jesla Jr (https://shop.quickchargepower.com/JESLA ... ESLAJR.htm) or a Tesla mobile connector (https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/ve ... undle.html) + JDapter (https://shop.quickchargepower.com/JDapt ... PTRSTB.htm). Buy all the adapters at https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/ve ... pters.html that aren't included.

https://www.concordchevrolet.com/Vehicl ... search=new has some Bolt LT's with DC FC inlet for $28,245 before $3750 Federal tax credit and any CA benefits (e.g. $2500 CVRP and utility rebate).

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Long trip...saw one electric car

Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:13 pm

cwerdna wrote:I and likely many others (definitely at least one other person here who I've talked to in person about this) are puzzled by how one can spend so much time here and be on here for so long, posting about BEVs, PHEVs and charging infrastructure to not have either a BEV or PHEV.
How about chiming in about about the severity of AGW freely, yet not taking the easy step to cut ICE consumption 30 - 50% for the past 15 years because he does not want to be inconvenienced by tire chains a couple times a year ?

He makes me fear for the human race. Trumpers and monkeys are an unfortunate reality but that guy is one of the so called thoughtful and informed types. I thought for the longest time that it was a matter of money but his recent declaration of interest in leasing Kona is incongruent with that excuse. Perhaps an inheritance has fallen into his lap.

He obviously loves talking about himself and being a center of attention so I expect he will be along shortly.
Last edited by SageBrush on Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:02 pm, edited 4 times in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

cwerdna
Posts: 10415
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Long trip...saw one electric car

Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:19 pm

^^^
(shrug) (nod)
It does kinda go along with this: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29547. But then to also have a sizeable portion of the US and the world who are AGW deniers. :roll:

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 14671
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Long trip...saw one electric car

Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:08 pm

Human behavior is riddled with illogical behaviors - like trying to bully and insult people into seeing things your way, for example. I'm NOT trying to shame GRA. I just wonder about his choices, as I do with most of us.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
Posts: 11815
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Long trip...saw one electric car

Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:20 pm

WetEV wrote:
GRA wrote:It all depends on the price and features. Shorter-range BEVs for routine urban use can make sense now, but will make a lot more sense when they are priced at $20k or better yet, $15k.
There is no magic price that convinces everyone.
Of course not, but AOTBE the lower the price the more people that can afford the car, and who may thus seriously consider it, and who will judge it to provide adequate value for the money, which along with lack of practicality in their particular cicumstances, are the main reasons most people don't consider BEVs now.
GRA wrote:However, even people whose use case isn't skewed towards one end of the spectrum as mine is want a car that will allow them to go anywhere they want to (at least on paved roads), whenever they want to with flexibility and convenience, and at the moment only ICEs and their supporting fueling infrastructure allow that.
Again, there is no magic range or amount of infrastructure that convinces everyone. Everyone has a different list of wants and needs. As the price for a given range decreases, and the maximum range you can buy increases, more people will be interested. More people driving, more infrastructure will be built... And so on.[/quote]
We don't have to convince everyone, just most people. Virtually all ICEs have provided at least 300 miles of range with a reserve due to customer demand, and the universal infrastructure and rapid refueling have provided the public with the flexibility and convenience they want.

Absent gov't. mandates or really high fuel prices, most people are satisfied with ICEs and see no reason to switch, so BEVs must satisfy those requirements if they are to be competitive. Sure, lots of Tesla sales are because they're considered cool and they go fast, but the fact is they provide the closest comparison to the range, infrastructure and "refueling" speed of ICEs among currently available BEVs, which explains their popularity even though they are priced too high for most. Until BEVs with those capabilities or better are priced so most can afford them, we aren't going to see major adoption.
GRA wrote:I anticipate we'll see the first sub-$40k MSRP 300+ mile EPA BEV in 3-5 years,
Trend suggests more like 350+ mile range for under $40k in that time period.[/quote]
I'm deliberately being conservative, but I'd love for that to be true.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Return to “General / Main Owners Forum”