Has anyone seen so much degradation in a month

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mitrals

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Messages
142
Location
Chicago IL
I bought a leaf last month and the soh has dipped 5%. See leaf spy images. Should I get the battery looked at? This is very concerning. I have enabled long life and only charge at night to 80%. My daily commute is only 14 miles.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jK2fTDyqGqaPinXc7
 
I agree that it might be a reset as that's a pretty rapid and steady decline.

What if you charge to 100% and don't charge until you're fairly low (e.g. below 25%)? Does that improve the score any?

My 5/2013 built '13 SV is still at around 81.xx to 83.xx%. I haven't seen it at 81.xx% in awhile. I lost my 1st bar in Nov 2017 (https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=511915#p511915) with SOH 83% when Leaf Spy didn't render anything past the decimal for that score. I don't know if Leaf Spy back then rounded or truncated the SOH past the decimal point.

My Hx is lower now though. Was at 76.72% last night. In glancing thru my logs, my Hx has been hovering at 75.xx to 76.xx% since beginning of June 2019. I'm now at 65.3K miles.
 
Ignore my first post; he is talking about a change from 66 to 64 SOH

:lol: :lol:

OP: ignore it
 
mitrals said:
I bought a leaf last month and the soh has dipped 5%. See leaf spy images. Should I get the battery looked at? This is very concerning. I have enabled long life and only charge at night to 80%. My daily commute is only 14 miles.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jK2fTDyqGqaPinXc7

What Model year is your Leaf?

The picture you show only shows a 2.8% SOH drop. Small fluctuations are totally normal and not worth worrying about. A 5% drop, however, would be a bit larger. Things that can impact SOH: Changes to charging (using L1 instead of L2 or L3 charging, driving style (local vs highway), etc). You are likely charging and driving the car differently from the previous owner, which could account for a few percent of the SOH.


--This section may no longer be relevant. I posted in response to SageBrush's statement about a BMS reset --
A BMS reset is where the car's computer is tricked into thinking the battery is at full health when the battery is actually worn out. It's a trick some unscrupulous people will use to make a car with a bad battery look like it's 100% healthy.

It would be very strange for someone to do a BMS reset and then let the car get to 67% SOH before selling it. I don't think this is a BMS reset--something else may be going on. I wonder if one or more battery cells has gone bad and is influencing the SOH calculation.
--This section may no longer be relevant. I posted in response to SageBrush's statement about a BMS reset --


Do you have Leafspy? Can you post a picture of the battery cell voltages? It should look like this.
http://www.wind-works.org/cms/uploads/RTEmagicC_Leaf_Spy_Pro-005_01.jpg.jpg

If you can do that, can you drive your car to the very low battery warning (VLBW, where the car shows --- miles remaining), and then grab the graph? Be sure to stay close to your house when trying to drain the battery if you've never gone that low before as failing batteries can potentially shut down with little warning. One way to safely drain the battery is to crank the heat to maximum in your driveway until the miles left on the dashboard hits ---.

Once you get the voltage at VLBW, be sure to immediately shut down the car and charge it. You don't want to leave the car at a low battery for very long.
 
First picture: https://photos.app.goo.gl/3A27jN7TYh1xuyHv5

Second picture : https://photos.app.goo.gl/KniaDEHgYoczNAV69

It's a 2012 sl. I checked leaf spy when I bought it and it said 69.8 soh.

Lothsahn: I have been talking to you over private message.
 
So a week after you got the car, it dropped by about 2%, and it's dropped another 2.7% or so after that. The one thing that's really strange is your car reported only 9 L1/L2 charges in 50k miles. That's... not possible. I wonder if the previous owner only charged the car using the quick charge (QC) port. If so, that would artificially inflate the SOH (and wear the pack out quickly). However, QC's usually show on that screen as well.

You have a 2012 battery pack. The battery packs made before 4/2013 are known to wear out and degrade significantly faster than later model years. Being in Chicago will help as the packs hate heat. My 2011 original battery was at 57% SOH, so your pack is in better shape than mine was. This pack should give you 40-45 miles range in the summer and around 25 miles in freezing temps with the heat on.

I saw the cell voltages picture and it shows that your pack is working fine. To see how the individual cells are faring, you really need to get the car to VLBW (--- on the dash) before taking that exact same screenshot. That said, I'm pretty sure you'll just find that the pack is old and worn out, and that the cells don't balance very well. Unfortunately, other than swapping all the battery cells out, there's not much to improve the situation.

If the car meets your range needs, I expect that the dropping of the SOH is most likely just the car adjusting to your driving and charging habits, and the SOC drop should slow down or stop. If your commute is 14 miles/day, this car should meet your range needs for 3-4 years, way more if you're willing to forgo the heat.

If you start with the car fully charged, and you drive 20 miles with the car, is it at about half battery? If so, I wouldn't worry. SOH is just an estimate--what matters is the range you actually get.

P.S.
1) Use the seat and steering wheel heaters as much as you want. They barely impact range. However, turning the heat on in the cabin will have a huge impact on range. Be happy you have a 2012--my 2011 doesn't have seat or steering wheel heaters.

2) You are using a L1 or L2 charger to charge the car, right? Avoid using the QC port on the car unless you absolutely have to. The QC port will heat up and wear out the battery quickly.

3) Can you update your signature to include the car you drive, area, mileage, etc? You can use my signature as an example.

4) I'd you can, charge the car only to 80% in the summer (You can do 100% in the winter if you need the range). The pack will last longer. You can set a charge timer on a 2012 to automatically stop at 80%. Ping me if you need to know how to do that.
 
If the Original poster bought an original Leaf with 67% SOH, then he must expect that the battery is at the point of decline. It is to be expected...

Possibly, he should be thinking of battery replacement options...
 
What is strange is with 50,000 miles LeafSpy shows only 9 L1/L2 charge sessions. Why would that he?


MhX6Ol7l.jpg
 
Jerryr said:
What is strange is with 50,000 miles LeafSpy shows only 9 L1/L2 charge sessions. Why would that he?


MhX6Ol7l.jpg

Thats what I was concerned about. Created a thread here: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=29381
 
powersurge said:
If the Original poster bought an original Leaf with 67% SOH, then he must expect that the battery is at the point of decline. It is to be expected...

Possibly, he should be thinking of battery replacement options...

If the SOH stayed at 67% I would be fine. I baby the car, have the long life setup for charging and always charge between 40-80%.
 
Lothsahn said:
What Model year is your Leaf?

The picture you show only shows a 2.8% SOH drop. Small fluctuations are totally normal and not worth worrying about. A 5% drop, however, would be a bit larger. Things that can impact SOH: Changes to charging (using L1 instead of L2 or L3 charging, driving style (local vs highway), etc). You are likely charging and driving the car differently from the previous owner, which could account for a few percent of the SOH.


--This section may no longer be relevant. I posted in response to SageBrush's statement about a BMS reset --
A BMS reset is where the car's computer is tricked into thinking the battery is at full health when the battery is actually worn out. It's a trick some unscrupulous people will use to make a car with a bad battery look like it's 100% healthy.

It would be very strange for someone to do a BMS reset and then let the car get to 67% SOH before selling it. I don't think this is a BMS reset--something else may be going on. I wonder if one or more battery cells has gone bad and is influencing the SOH calculation.
--This section may no longer be relevant. I posted in response to SageBrush's statement about a BMS reset --


Do you have Leafspy? Can you post a picture of the battery cell voltages? It should look like this.
http://www.wind-works.org/cms/uploads/RTEmagicC_Leaf_Spy_Pro-005_01.jpg.jpg

If you can do that, can you drive your car to the very low battery warning (VLBW, where the car shows --- miles remaining), and then grab the graph? Be sure to stay close to your house when trying to drain the battery if you've never gone that low before as failing batteries can potentially shut down with little warning. One way to safely drain the battery is to crank the heat to maximum in your driveway until the miles left on the dashboard hits ---.

Once you get the voltage at VLBW, be sure to immediately shut down the car and charge it. You don't want to leave the car at a low battery for very long.

2012 Leaf SL. I dont drive on the highway with this car. This is the third car I own and will never be more than 10-15 miles away from home, usually under 5 miles from home. The other day I charged to 80% drove 30 miles round trip on local roads with minimum traffic (got 4.3miles/kwh). Even though the SOC bars went down to 2, no LBW came on. I will probably drive the car to VLBW next week and post the leafspy readings. I have a level 2 charger at home for my PHEV that I can use for the leaf when required. I usually trickle charge to 80% every night starting at 10 PM and have only charged to 100% twice, once using the 110V charger and once using my level 2 charger to balance the cells.
 
Lothsahn said:
So a week after you got the car, it dropped by about 2%, and it's dropped another 2.7% or so after that. The one thing that's really strange is your car reported only 9 L1/L2 charges in 50k miles. That's... not possible. I wonder if the previous owner only charged the car using the quick charge (QC) port. If so, that would artificially inflate the SOH (and wear the pack out quickly). However, QC's usually show on that screen as well. Correct. This made no sense to me.

You have a 2012 battery pack. The battery packs made before 4/2013 are known to wear out and degrade significantly faster than later model years. Being in Chicago will help as the packs hate heat. My 2011 original battery was at 57% SOH, so your pack is in better shape than mine was. This pack should give you 40-45 miles range in the summer and around 25 miles in freezing temps with the heat on. Yup. I am aware of the pre4/2013 battery issue.

I saw the cell voltages picture and it shows that your pack is working fine. To see how the individual cells are faring, you really need to get the car to VLBW (--- on the dash) before taking that exact same screenshot. That said, I'm pretty sure you'll just find that the pack is old and worn out, and that the cells don't balance very well. Unfortunately, other than swapping all the battery cells out, there's not much to improve the situation.I will check this out next week

If the car meets your range needs, I expect that the dropping of the SOH is most likely just the car adjusting to your driving and charging habits, and the SOC drop should slow down or stop. If your commute is 14 miles/day, this car should meet your range needs for 3-4 years, way more if you're willing to forgo the heat. Thats the plan. Battery health going down is concerning.

If you start with the car fully charged, and you drive 20 miles with the car, is it at about half battery? If so, I wouldn't worry. SOH is just an estimate--what matters is the range you actually get. I can get 20+ miles before I lost 6 SOC bars

P.S.
1) Use the seat and steering wheel heaters as much as you want. They barely impact range. However, turning the heat on in the cabin will have a huge impact on range. Be happy you have a 2012--my 2011 doesn't have seat or steering wheel heaters.Yup, My second leaf and 5th electrical car. I know how to save battery in winter

2) You are using a L1 or L2 charger to charge the car, right? Avoid using the QC port on the car unless you absolutely have to. The QC port will heat up and wear out the battery quickly. This car will never get QC. I might do it once to see if leafspy detects it.

3) Can you update your signature to include the car you drive, area, mileage, etc? You can use my signature as an example.Done.

4) I'd you can, charge the car only to 80% in the summer (You can do 100% in the winter if you need the range). The pack will last longer. You can set a charge timer on a 2012 to automatically stop at 80%. Ping me if you need to know how to do that. Already on long life mode and dont plan to change anything.
 
My "Lizard" replacement battery has shown similar variations in ahr vrs time as yours - maybe not quite so pronounced and certainly not around the same time frame each year (my Leaf is in Houston, TX). If you would continue this disciplined data logging and plot it periodically, I'd appreciate it to compare in a totally different climate. Hard to compare historical driving habits and use/abuse of the battery - especially without the charge history - wonder what that is about?

Hope this helps:

Battery log 6.30.19.jpg
 
You need to get away from this "100% is bad, 80% is ok" ideology. LEAF packs, especially the early ones don't work that well when used lightly.

Some of your loss is likely invalid due to light usage. If you know you will not be driving more than you do, then charge it to a lower SOC. Use the time and set it to charge 2 hours a day mon wed fri and one hour a day tue thurs. Keep SOC centered around 50% as much as possible.
 
Something is really goofy with the pack. My soc is at 3 bars today with 19 miles on gom and leaf spy says I have 40% soc.
 
I suspect you have some weak cells. My 2015 with over 81,000 miles on it has several weak cells (based upon LEAF Spy graphs) which are really limiting range now. The dashboard instrumentation along with CAN Bus data which LEAF Spy can read have become very erratic. Try to take a screen shot of the cell voltage graph when the battery is at or below the very low battery warning. The charge count is strange because a LBC (lithium battery controller) reset will not reset the charge counts.

Edited to add: I suggest that you discharge the battery below VLBW by running the air conditioner while parked at home to get an idea of actual capacity without getting stranded. Then measure the time required to charge fully (either L1 or L2).
 
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