Oilpan4
Posts: 1390
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Best cells donor for 2012 SL

Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:56 am

I was just going to buy a whole 40kwh battery and force fit, mix, match bits and pieces till it will fit into the 24kwh batt box.
In a year or 2 the worst case scenario should be a 11 bar 40kwh batrery.
trumpvirus
Is going to get you.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Best cells donor for 2012 SL

Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:16 am

LeftieBiker wrote: The problem with using 30kwh modules is that you are more likely to get bad or degraded ones.
How so ?

Even if you think that 30 kWh cells are no better than 24 kWh cells, they are not as old.
I remember QC problems with the pack early in the 30 kWh run but we are talking here about packs removed from cars that have been totaled.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Best cells donor for 2012 SL

Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:46 am

SageBrush wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote: The problem with using 30kwh modules is that you are more likely to get bad or degraded ones.
How so ?

Even if you think that 30 kWh cells are no better than 24 kWh cells, they are not as old.
I remember QC problems with the pack early in the 30 kWh run but we are talking here about packs removed from cars that have been totaled.
There are two kinds of problems with 30kwh packs: bad cells mainly (but not entirely, I think) in the early builds, and actual rapid capacity loss. Picture this scenario: a 2017 Leaf loses 3 or 4 capacity bars. It gets the BMS update, and the lost bars are "restored" but will be dropping again soon because the cells have actually degraded quickly. In the meantime the car gets totaled, and the pack is sold as a "12 bar" pack, when in fact it is more like 8 or 9 bars...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
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Location: NM

Re: Best cells donor for 2012 SL

Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:09 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote: The problem with using 30kwh modules is that you are more likely to get bad or degraded ones.
How so ?

Even if you think that 30 kWh cells are no better than 24 kWh cells, they are not as old.
I remember QC problems with the pack early in the 30 kWh run but we are talking here about packs removed from cars that have been totaled.
There are two kinds of problems with 30kwh packs: bad cells mainly (but not entirely, I think) in the early builds, and actual rapid capacity loss. Picture this scenario: a 2017 Leaf loses 3 or 4 capacity bars. It gets the BMS update, and the lost bars are "restored" but will be dropping again soon because the cells have actually degraded quickly. In the meantime the car gets totaled, and the pack is sold as a "12 bar" pack, when in fact it is more like 8 or 9 bars...
That is complete conjecture, but if it helps one can always avoid 30 kWh packs from the first 6 months or so of the 30 kWh model run. It also helps that OP is buying modules so his risk is diluted considerably since a bad module probably leaves the others healthy.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Best cells donor for 2012 SL

Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:16 am

That is complete conjecture, but if it helps one can always avoid 30 kWh packs from the first 6 months or so of the 30 kWh model run. It also helps that OP is buying modules so his risk is diluted considerably since a bad module probably leaves the others healthy.
It isn't "complete conjecture." We know that a significant number of 30kwh packs lose capacity quickly and that it is not always restored by the BMS update - it's real capacity loss. Packs with this issue likely have more than "a" bad module. Finally, saying that the risk is diluted doesn't much help someone who is looking for a set of ALL good modules. In any case, the OP is looking for cells compatible with a Gen I pack, and 30kwh cells are not.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Best cells donor for 2012 SL

Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:55 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Packs with this issue likely have more than "a" bad module.
Any evidence to back up your statement ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 14641
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Best cells donor for 2012 SL

Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:18 pm

SageBrush wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:
Packs with this issue likely have more than "a" bad module.
Any evidence to back up your statement ?
As it usually is with me, it's a case of what I remember - which is that people with capacity bar loss and a 30kwh pack don't usually have bad cells showing on LeafSpy. Those with defective cells do, several bars lost don't seem to. There is always the chance that I'm wrong - or that anyone else is wrong - but my record on characterizing the various packs is good. For quite a while I was virtually alone in doubting that Nissan's BMS "update" would solve the capacity loss problem for all of the 30kwh packs. Now that people who have has the update are re-losing bars again, it looks very much Nissan was taking advantage of a few buggy LBCs to claim a cure for a larger problem. That is why I only recommend that people buy a 30kwh Leaf if they have substantial evidence that the specific car they are interested in has a good pack.

On a closely related note, I think I have a name for the 30kwh packs. I originally, when they started dropping bars left and right, called them "Lettuce Packs" but it now appears that they range from Canary pack bad to Lizard pack good. So what do you folks think of... "Mystery Pack"? "Or maybe "Roulette Pack"?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Best cells donor for 2012 SL

Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:48 pm

^^ lol

I agree with your statement that LeafSpy can identify bad cells, although I'm less confident of your memory when it comes to specifics of the rapidly degrading packs after the software update. You also have no way of knowing how frequent that problem is, presuming it exists.

I know that makes me sounds like the Seattle guy but there is a difference: we have a survey that included hundreds if not over a thousand of Gen 1 packs to conclude a lot about their degradation; in the case of the 30 kWh packs we might have a handful. and IF my memory serves they occurred in the first 6 months of production so there could well be confounding factors at play.

That is just no where near enough to post a sweeping generalization.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 14641
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Best cells donor for 2012 SL

Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:16 pm

The 30kwh degradation problem has persisted through the 2017 model year. It definitely doesn't occur with all of the packs, but it does occur in both years.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

alozzy
Posts: 1472
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Best cells donor for 2012 SL

Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:42 pm

Andrey wrote:I wonder if there is a way to get battery status from dismounted battery.
https://evsenhanced.com/products/leaf-b ... test-loop/
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

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