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Re: How much of a Discount Should I be Able to Get on an Ordered Leaf?

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:46 pm
by martyscholes
LeftieBiker wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:45 pm
The problem with mentioning a trade in advance is that it is just too easy for the dealership to "adjust" their offer to make the trade seem appealing, but give less in discounts. It is just too easy for them to then make an offer that appears to give a generous trade-in value, but that actually does the equivalent of greatly discounting it. I'm not talking about not mentioning the trade until after the paperwork is signed, just waiting for a written offer on the new car before negotiating the trade. I'm sure it's more hassle for the dealership that way, but you can thank dishonest dealerships for that.
I do not want to beat a dead horse on this topic. Your style is yours and that is fine. My point is that negotiating in bad faith often is not the best approach. Negotiating for a purchase that you never intend to complete (such as negotiating without a trade when you intend to trade in a car) is not a good idea. Consider what would happen if the reverse happened. What if you genuinely did not have a trade and negotiated a purchase of a car? After you had agreed on all of the terms, the salesperson said that they had decided not to honor the terms, and would only sell you the car if you supplied a trade. Most people would be incensed. You do not need to deceive in order to negotiate a good deal.

Re: How much of a Discount Should I be Able to Get on an Ordered Leaf?

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:59 pm
by LeftieBiker
There is no need to change a written offer when a trade is added, beyond counting the trade as part of the buyer's contribution - the OTD price remains the same. As for the scenario you present in which the dealership refuses to honor an offer they have just made: that happens all the time, unfortunately, and is usually called a "mistake." Again, it's unfortunate that holding back the trade should be done, and it quite possibly isn't necessary with every dealership, but there are just too many dishonest dealers out there who would take advantage of the situation. If a prospective buyer/lessee feels that they have a good, honest, established relationship with a dealership then they can perhaps skip what I suggest. Given the rapid staff turnover rate at dealerships, though, I wouldn't do that unless all of the same people (owner, salesperson, finance manager) were still there.

Re: How much of a Discount Should I be Able to Get on an Ordered Leaf?

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:29 pm
by SageBrush
martyscholes wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:18 am
The salesperson will ask for a commitment on what you will do to buy the car right now.
.
Perhaps I am not following, but I read your advice as the dealership taking the commitment number and negotiating upwards.

Re: How much of a Discount Should I be Able to Get on an Ordered Leaf?

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:05 pm
by martyscholes
SageBrush wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:29 pm
martyscholes wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:18 am
The salesperson will ask for a commitment on what you will do to buy the car right now.
.
Perhaps I am not following, but I read your advice as the dealership taking the commitment number and negotiating upwards.
That is exactly what happens. As buyers, we do the same. In essence, the dealer's opening price is the sticker price, and we negotiate downwards.

Re: How much of a Discount Should I be Able to Get on an Ordered Leaf?

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:10 pm
by SageBrush
martyscholes wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:05 pm
SageBrush wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:29 pm
martyscholes wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:18 am
The salesperson will ask for a commitment on what you will do to buy the car right now.
.
Perhaps I am not following, but I read your advice as the dealership taking the commitment number and negotiating upwards.
That is exactly what happens. As buyers, we do the same. In essence, the dealer's opening price is the sticker price, and we negotiate downwards.
.
I took the 'commitment' number to mean the highest price I agree to pay. You mean something different.

Re: How much of a Discount Should I be Able to Get on an Ordered Leaf?

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:12 pm
by martyscholes
SageBrush wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:10 pm
I took the 'commitment' number to mean the highest price I agree to pay. You mean something different.
The commitment is what you will pay right now. Maybe you will agree to pay more. Similarly, the sticker price is what the dealer will sell for right now. Maybe the dealer will agree to sell for less.

Re: How much of a Discount Should I be Able to Get on an Ordered Leaf?

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:35 pm
by SageBrush
martyscholes wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:12 pm
SageBrush wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:10 pm
I took the 'commitment' number to mean the highest price I agree to pay. You mean something different.
The commitment is what you will pay right now. Maybe you will agree to pay more. Similarly, the sticker price is what the dealer will sell for right now. Maybe the dealer will agree to sell for less.
.
I follow now. And since the "ideal" price is equally between the two the implication is that I should know my highest price (HP) before starting negotiation and offer a commitment of HP - (MSRP - HP)

Example:
msrp is 25k
The most I will pay is 20k
I offer 15k commitment

Re: How much of a Discount Should I be Able to Get on an Ordered Leaf?

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:51 pm
by martyscholes
SageBrush wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:35 pm
martyscholes wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:12 pm
SageBrush wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:10 pm
I took the 'commitment' number to mean the highest price I agree to pay. You mean something different.
The commitment is what you will pay right now. Maybe you will agree to pay more. Similarly, the sticker price is what the dealer will sell for right now. Maybe the dealer will agree to sell for less.
.
I follow now. And since the "ideal" price is equally between the two the implication is that I should know my highest price (HP) before starting negotiation and offer a commitment of HP - (MSRP - HP)

Example:
msrp is 25k
The most I will pay is 20k
I offer 15k commitment
Yeah, it's a dance. A good strategy is to know your walk-away price before you start, and then stick to it and actually walk away if the dealer cannot meet that price. You certainly should not start with your walk-away price for your initial commitment. The initial commitment should be the no-brainer price, a number where you would buy the car without hesitation. Of course, those numbers are different for everyone. As a buyer, you want to buy at the dealer's walk-away price. As a seller, the dealer wants to sell at your walk-away price. In truth, the actual number is somewhere in between.

Re: How much of a Discount Should I be Able to Get on an Ordered Leaf?

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:34 pm
by Nubo
martyscholes wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:18 am
...
  • Do your homework to learn what you want and what you are willing to pay. Be realistic; there are no free lunches here.
  • Understand your own value triggers.
  • Arrange your own financing, but do not mention that until you get “in the box” which is where you are talking to the finance person.
  • Go to the dealership. Negotiation on the phone or via email is seen as a waste of time for the dealer.
  • Schedule your visit on a slow day.
  • Very early in the discussion, tell the salesperson that you will rate them as perfect across the board on the survey if you buy a car.
  • As a person of integrity, actually follow through and rate the salesperson as perfect when you receive the survey.
  • Be honest and tell the salesperson what you want and what you are willing to pay. Do not play games here. Be honest.
  • Close on the first or second pencil if you can live with the numbers.
  • Feel free to walk away at any time. State that you think the numbers are too far apart. Sincerely thank the salesperson for his or her time, stand up, then walk out..
...
Interesting. Although the last two times I have contacted dealerships for out-the-door price via email, and made it clear I was NOT coming in until I had a price but if I did come in it would be to sign for that price. Many salespeople did not want to play, as you say. But enough did. No idea if that optimized my cost but I absolutely detest the salesdesk/finance manager/salesdesk waltz. If you want to spend 5 minutes selling a car, I'm your guy. If you want to spend 3 hours, find another customer.

Re: How much of a Discount Should I be Able to Get on an Ordered Leaf?

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:07 pm
by LeftieBiker
Yup. And I handled all negotiations over email, including the detailed search for my actual car, which came from Connecticut. Some salespeople are well into the 21st century - even some older guys like the great one with whom I dealt - David Seacord, IIRC, of Lia Nissan of Colonie. We met in person for the first time when I picked the car up.