coleafrado
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:58 pm

Do electric cars exist?

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:08 pm

;)
Last edited by coleafrado on Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:16 am, edited 13 times in total.

cwerdna
Posts: 11151
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: POLL: Would you pay $17k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:18 pm

No.
coleafrado wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:08 pm
As a basic point of reference, here are some typical prices and nominal capacities for new and used EVs available in real quantities today. Whether it is relevant or meaningful to compare these is up to you.
...
2019 Chevrolet Bolt (65 kWh?): $38,000
...
2017 Chevrolet Bolt (60 kWh): $22,000 used
'17 to '19 Bolt are 60 kWh. '20 will be 66 kWh.

Here are some current prices from the dealer I bought my Bolt from: https://www.chevroletoffremont.com/Vehi ... rice%7Casc. These actually aren't great deals given that the GM EV/PHEV tax credit is now only $1875. Earlier this year, this same dealer was openly advertising a base LT MSRP of $37,495 for $25,495. This was before $3750 Federal tax credit and $2500 CVRP (https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/eligible-vehicles, if you qualify. I don't.) and before any utility rebates ($800 for me:https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/s ... icles.page).

For future reference, they currently have an MSRP $38,655 LT for $31,032 and an MSRP $42,760 Premier for $32,917 + 24 other Bolts.

The most expensive one I see is a Premier (higher trim of the two that exist) MSRP $44,130 for $34,170. It has DC FC inlet, $395 extra for the red color, infotainment package and driver confidence II. This is identical to mine except mine isn't red and thus doesn't have any extra charge for paint color. This is about as fully loaded as you can get short of crap like all weather floor mats, cargo organizer or black bowtie logos.

Used '17 Bolts are less than $22K now. I'd imagine the prices will come down when the '17s come off their 3 year leases and their CA HOV stickers expire. Bolt began shipping in mid-Dec 2016.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
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Re: POLL: Would you pay $17k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:45 pm

Rather than conjure up a complex battery with exact specifications and a price, maybe it would be more useful to determine what people want in each of those categories, and what they are willing to pay or sacrifice to get them. My suggestion would be a modular battery with thermal management that could be anywhere from 30kwh to 90kwh, depending on number of modules. The price could range from less than $15k to more than $30k.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

coleafrado
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:58 pm

Re: POLL: Would you pay $17k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:37 pm

:(
Last edited by coleafrado on Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

LeftieBiker
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Re: POLL: Would you pay $17k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:54 pm

I wasn't thinking of a battery for the Leaf only. Now that I understand that you are focusing on this car only, I'd suggest whatever capacity battery will fit into the space without a huge premium being paid for a few extra KWHs.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

coleafrado
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:58 pm

Re: POLL: Would you pay $17k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:56 pm

:(
Last edited by coleafrado on Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:17 am, edited 3 times in total.

alozzy
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Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: POLL: Would you pay $17k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:31 am

No, I'm pretty sure ;)

My main concern with investing that much to upgrade the battery is with component failures on the rest of the car. Some of the components/parts of the LEAF are incredibly expensive to repair, so having $17K tied up in the car would make me feel compelled to eat any ripoff repair cost. Having said that, I would definitely tackle some repairs by myself, but I wouldn't touch any of the high voltage components, except perhaps the PTC heater.

Without the battery upgrade, I would consider repairs of up to 40% of the value of the car - anything more and I would sell the battery pack, scrap the rest of the car, and look for a newer (but used) EV.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
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LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

LeftieBiker
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Re: POLL: Would you pay $17k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:34 am

Most people, from what I've seen on this forum, would rather pay a bit more to get the most range possible - and those are the consumers a company in this segment has to target starting out.

Keep in mind that with BEV choices expanding rapidly, people will only retrofit their Leaf if it makes at least some financial sense. An extra 3-5$k for maximum range might seem fair (and might be fair) but it could also drive away a substantial portion of the already small potential market. The current fantasy is to have the 40wkh battery in the Gen I Leaf; if 38kwh is reasonable and 45+kwh is much more expensive, I'd suggest offering the best price rather than the most possible range.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

powersurge
Posts: 1743
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: POLL: Would you pay $17k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:37 am

That is a tough question... Although I love my Leaf, I would never just "pull out" my good battery in order to do an upgrade. I think most people would only replace their battery when the original is toast. BUT at that point, the car would be older, and as someone else stated, other systems would be in danger of failing, plus the car's value would be very low. Like renovating a $100K house with $500K worth of upgrades.

I think the sweet spot on Leaf replacement batteries is to keep them at the 20-30 KWH range, and offer replacements for $3-5,000. Anyone that wants a 60-70 KWH battery and high range will wait until they can buy a new car that has that.

I think the real battery replacement market is to keep all of the existing Leafs alive and working. Although today, the push is to increase EV range to the 300 mile level, I think that most current Leaf owners are happy with the Gen 1 size battery. The real issue is to keep that car rolling as long as possible with a modestly priced "original size" battery. I could easily see myself being happy to drive my Leaf 200,000 miles on a 24 KWH battery. If the replacement price of the battery was in the sub $6000 range.

johnlocke
Posts: 625
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Leaf Number: 300582

Re: POLL: Would you pay $17k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:55 am

$17K to replace the battery even if it's 70KWH is just too much. You still end up with an older Leaf with old electronics. Value with a new battery might jump from $10K to $17K but you are never going to recover the cost. $17K is a whopping down payment on a used Tesla or almost full boat on a used Bolt. By the time you get to market, used Model 3's are going to start showing up. A 3 year old model 3 might go for $25K at a guess. It might be a deal if you could find an old Leaf for $3-5K and replace the battery.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

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