coleafrado wrote: ↑
Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:08 pm
frontrangeleaf wrote: ↑
Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:28 pm
Drop $10k into a 3-10 year old car based on a 10 year old design? Ummm, in a word, no. Still no.
Might turn into the collector’s car of the century, I suppose, but I have a long list of better things to drop $10k on.
$2-3k? Maybe. Probably not. The original Leaf just isn’t that compelling to me personally, even as an in-town runabout for reasons discussed above.
YMMV. I’m sure there are folks on this board who may feel differently.
Edit: clarified after re-reading the thread.
$10k is a ton, but hardly anyone in this thread seems to want a 70 kWh pack. Model 3 SR owners seem to get along fine with 50 kWh, even for road trips - that pack would be around 30% cheaper than one sized at 70 kWh. Most single-car owners I know have a hatchback or sedan; $3-7k for a car plus $4-8k for 300km worth of battery (with non-thermally-limited fast charging, meaning road trips aren't a nightmare) is something I've heard is decently compelling. Not "bust out the wallet, we're buying!" good, with gas at $1.50/gallon, but lukewarm good.
In the end, an upgraded Leaf is only a little cheaper than a used Bolt and likely harder to sell. Much cheaper than a Tesla, but lacks the cool factor and a few other things (speed, resale value, autopilot, being a vandalism magnet).
It makes sense for people who like specific aspects of the Leaf over other cars - its size, headroom, running costs, hatchback, the seats - or just plain don't want to buy a new car.
I suppose. The value proposition of the gen2 is vastly more compelling on any number of grounds. It's just a better car all around. Not to mention easier on the eyes... It does depend on your use case. No question.
For us, ~60kWh is the bare minimum given today's technology ecosystem around the battery (control electronics, drivetrain, etc). Not because we "need" the range, but because we're not willing to sweat how we use the car as much as other folks apparently are. "Need" is relative. I've written in other threads that driving my car is not a video game to me. Attaching dongles and futzing around with software apps to squeeze the last few hundred yards of range is not my idea of a good time. I'm just flat not interested in all that.
Dramatically more than ~60kWh drives the price into a range that becomes prohibitive for our use case today. But I expect to upgrade to more capacity in our next EV for similar money in a few years. Our out of pocket for the Leaf + amounted to very similar money to a top of the line Corolla. The Leaf is a vastly nicer car than any Corolla - with apologies to all the Corolla lovers out there.
As to the EV experience, we don't worry about range. Ever. We don't worry about where the nearest charger is. Ever. We drive the car like any other car, except that we charge at home instead of making a stop somewhere else to refuel it. And we have fun with it. It's not a sports car, true, but it's definitely sporty. If someone more knowledgable than I were offering a suspension upgrade kit, I'd be interested. And a way to fix the ridiculously light steering, please. But range is not an issue. And it actually handles pretty well if you stay ahead of it, i.e. apply power at the right point in a turn.
We didn't buy this vehicle to take long over-the-road trips. Wrong tool for that. As I've written before, we don't take our roadster off-road, nor are we disappointed that we really couldn't. The Leaf plus can be taken on long road trips, but you're working pretty hard at it. We have the Q5 for that. Our position is that EVERY vehicle is compromise. So what compromise are you making, and does it fit your purpose?
I might add that I'm a senior guy in IT - not a technophobe here. My experience in IT colors my views, but not in the ways some might expect. I think Tesla's giant touch screen is a giant step backwards in ergonomics - a deal killer for me. No thank you. My 14.5 cents of course. Plenty of folks love their touch screens in their car. I think that "targeting" is real issue, requiring the user to take their eyes off the road for far too long while they try to land on a software control.
That's a great idea on a tablet, but a horrible idea in a car, despite some really cool software behind it in the Teslas. Nicely done. Now give me my stalk controls back. No, I'm not going to dig around through any menu system to fine tune what the wipers are doing. No thank you. This is not progress. And no, the auto wipers don't always do what I want them to do, nor is "autopilot" 100% a replacement for watching the road. There are other ergonomic solutions available that are superior. And for Tesla money, you have to get it right.
All that said, I'm glad to see folks seriously running the numbers to explore how to make a battery replacement aftermarket work. For the sake of all those gen1 Leaf lovers out there, I hope you succeed.