RonSwanson
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Re: POLL: Would you pay $10k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:54 am

I'd never put $10k into a car worth $5k (or so).

gncndad
Posts: 284
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:02 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Feb 2016
Location: Ft. Worth, TX

Re: POLL: Would you pay $10k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:50 am

RonSwanson wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:54 am
I'd never put $10k into a car worth $5k (or so).
...especially one with a paper-thin paint job...My 2015 still LOOKS okay, but yikes, the paint is thin.
2015 LeafS
2018 Toyota Prius Four Touring
2018 Toyota Prius Two
2014 Toyota Avalon Hybrid Limited

lorenfb
Posts: 2467
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: POLL: Would you pay $10k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:47 am

gncndad wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:50 am
RonSwanson wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:54 am
I'd never put $10k into a car worth $5k (or so).
...especially one with a paper-thin paint job...My 2015 still LOOKS okay, but yikes, the paint is thin.
That's the case with all factory automotive paint processing, i.e. a thin color coat with multiple coats of clear.
Once the buffing removes the clear, the color is "done".
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=73, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

coleafrado
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:58 pm

Re: POLL: Would you pay $10k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:23 pm

But you'd spend $10-15k over the next decade or two on gasoline for an ordinary ICE car worth $5k, right? Seems like people are treating transport as a Veblen good. The market doesn't magically owe you a cheap EV battery just because your car has depreciated.

cwerdna
Posts: 11151
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: POLL: Would you pay $10k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:36 pm

coleafrado wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:23 pm
But you'd spend $10-15k over the next decade or two on gasoline for an ordinary ICE car worth $5k, right? Seems like people are treating transport as a Veblen good.
Electricity is expensive in PG&E-land. If I didn't have free L2 charging at work and had to depend on charging at home, fueling an EV isn't significantly cheaper than putting gasoline in a Prius. I had an 06 Prius for over 13 years.

Examples:
Page 1 of https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/ ... DS_E-1.pdf is ur default non-TOU plan. The baselines are intentionally designed to be insufficient for the "average" household, so figure each marginal kWh used to fuel an EV is in tier 2 (30.6 cents/kWh) or could push your into tier 3 (38.3 cents/kWh).

Even if you signed up the EV2 plan: https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/ ... 0(Sch).pdf (see pages 2 and 3), electricity at off-peak is cheap (16.6 cents/kWh) but they kill you at all other hours (33.4 to 47.8 cents/kWh).

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

coleafrado
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:58 pm

Re: POLL: Would you pay $10k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:08 pm

Seems like a California-specific problem. I'm used to the "extreme" pricing of Xcel and CL&P an ConEd at 10-15 cents with no caps.

cwerdna
Posts: 11151
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: POLL: Would you pay $10k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:31 pm

coleafrado wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:08 pm
Seems like a California-specific problem. I'm used to the "extreme" pricing of Xcel and CL&P an ConEd at 10-15 cents with no caps.
Some other states have expensive electricity. Hawaii is pretty bad and their electricity prices are tied to the price of oil, as well.

IIRC, some of the NE like NY isn't cheap either. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly ... epmt_5_6_a has some figures but in the past, I recall some of their figures (possibly that of California) were suspect.

BTW, to give an example about fueling Prius vs. Leaf:
- $3.30 / gal / 43 mpg = 7.67 cents/mile (when I was still tracking mileage on my Prius, my lifetime avg was about 44 mpg)
- $0.306 / kWh / 4 miles/kWh = 7.65 cents/mile

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

smkettner
Posts: 7501
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: POLL: Would you pay $10k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:55 pm

Maybe the car would hold value better if it had a larger and temperature controlled battery for longer life and more range.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

johnlocke
Posts: 625
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: POLL: Would you pay $10k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:00 pm

cwerdna wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:31 pm
coleafrado wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:08 pm
Seems like a California-specific problem. I'm used to the "extreme" pricing of Xcel and CL&P an ConEd at 10-15 cents with no caps.
Some other states have expensive electricity. Hawaii is pretty bad and their electricity prices are tied to the price of oil, as well.

IIRC, some of the NE like NY isn't cheap either. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly ... epmt_5_6_a has some figures but in the past, I recall some of their figures (possibly that of California) were suspect.

BTW, to give an example about fueling Prius vs. Leaf:
- $3.30 / gal / 43 mpg = 7.67 cents/mile (when I was still tracking mileage on my Prius, my lifetime avg was about 44 mpg)
- $0.306 / kWh / 4 miles/kWh = 7.65 cents/mile
If you live in SoCal or some other place with insane electric costs, then a Leaf or any other BEV doesn't make sense if you have to charge at standard rates. There are however some special rates available for overnight charging. Even better is to install solar PV to offset use. There's a high initial cost but systems can pay for themselves in 3-4 years and then generate free power for 30 years or more. When you pay $.40/kwh for power it's amazing how fast a 5 KW system pays for itself. If you live in an area with$.10-$.12/kwh power then even if you have to charge at standard rates, BEV's win hands down.

I hadn't thought of the cost of the replacement battery as a offset to the cost of gas. If you look at that way, you could offset $4000-$5000 of the cost but not $10000 and the value of the car after an additional 5-6 years is down to a couple thousand dollars at best. Still probably better to buy a newer model off-lease and apply that $10K to the down payment instead. Trade in the older car for $6K or so and you could come close to a break even deal compared to the cost to refurbish the older car.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

LeftieBiker
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Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: POLL: Would you pay $10k to install a 70 kWh active-cooled battery in your 2010-2017 LEAF?

Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:23 am

If you live in SoCal or some other place with insane electric costs, then a Leaf or any other BEV doesn't make sense if you have to charge at standard rates.
It doesn't make financial sense. It still makes environmental sense, and it still makes sense if you hate ICE vehicles.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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