Fussion101
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:20 am
Delivery Date: 31 Jan 2020

Prime or Leaf SL+ this weekend

Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:42 am

First time poster here looking for some advice.

I'm going to be purchasing either a prime or leaf this weekend to take advantage of the 0% financing 60/mo and ev incentives.

I test drove both and really leaning towards the leaf. I love the way it drives, interior, and the fact I don't have to visit the gas station every 2-3 days.

However, my round trip for work is 140miles. So it's going to be ~30k miles per year. I'll be passed the powertrain warranty in 2 yrs and battery in 3.5 yrs. Still financing the car after warranties are over.

Should I still consider the leaf? Will the electric powertrain and battery be an issue in the long term?

I always keep my cars over 10yrs. I still have my '10 Prius that I bought in '09.

powersurge
Posts: 1743
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Prime or Leaf SL+ this weekend

Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:29 am

Do not buy the Leaf.

You have a long distance need, get the hybrid prius.

dmacarthur
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:00 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jul 2018
Leaf Number: 306556
Location: Vermont

Re: Prime or Leaf SL+ this weekend

Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:39 am

We have a Leaf Plus, it takes a lot of charging to get you 140 miles every day, probably about 6 to 7 hours a night at L2. and remember- everything is slower in cold weather. Slower to charge, fewer miles per full charge, etc. Can you charge L2 at work? or even plug in at L1? If so, the commute gets a lot easier. The Prime is a great car, if you charge it both at home and at work it will use electricity for a decent portion of the miles..... However, we all hope that the leaf plus will last many many years if charged and driven correctly...
2015 Leaf sold
2019 Leaf Plus S as of 9/30/19

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 2361
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Prime or Leaf SL+ this weekend

Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:11 am

We moved from the 2013 to the 2019 Plus this year and love the car (and loved the previous). We are in Chicago, so summers don’t get too hot. In summer I have driven as far as 240 miles on a charge on the freeway (with conservative driving). Winter with heat, You are at 150-190 depending on heating/driving style.

For those of us ev fans, not having to hit a gas station or go for an oil change is huge value.

That said, a prime is still better than nothing.
2019 S Plus (98.06% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.77% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

Astros
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:21 am
Delivery Date: 28 Apr 2018
Leaf Number: 310136
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Prime or Leaf SL+ this weekend

Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:16 am

That's a tough decision. Essentially you're asking whether you'll be able to reliably make a 140 mile round trip on one charge for ten years. That will depend on a lot of factors, such as where you live, how fast you drive to cover that distance, and whether there is any possibility of charging at work or on your way home in a few years.

For example, if you drive 85 on the freeway and it's 35 degrees out and raining, you won't make much more than 140 miles when the car is new. If you can plug in at work to a standard 110V outlet you should be able to recharge ~4 miles of range per hour, which should be enough cushion. If your employer adds a Level 2 charger in a few years, your car should be fully charged by the time you leave work and you'll never have any problems.

No one knows yet what the new Leaf battery degradation will look like, though we do know a few things: First, it degrades much faster in very hot places like Arizona, and in hot and humid places like Florida. The models with a heat pump save a lot of energy in moderately cold temperatures. And Nissan, which has done far more testing than anyone here, has probably designed the battery to stay above ~65% after 100,000 miles or else they'd just have to replace them all under warranty. You want the battery to stay above 65% for 300,000 miles over ten years, though. That's possible, but sadly not very likely.

So, I could only recommend you get the Leaf if you think that the finances make sense even if you keep it only five years, or if you think that you might be able to charge at work or at a fast charger on your way home in a few years.
2019 Deep Blue SL Plus

johnlocke
Posts: 637
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: Prime or Leaf SL+ this weekend

Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:19 am

Fussion101 wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:42 am
First time poster here looking for some advice.

I'm going to be purchasing either a prime or leaf this weekend to take advantage of the 0% financing 60/mo and ev incentives.

I test drove both and really leaning towards the leaf. I love the way it drives, interior, and the fact I don't have to visit the gas station every 2-3 days.

However, my round trip for work is 140miles. So it's going to be ~30k miles per year. I'll be passed the powertrain warranty in 2 yrs and battery in 3.5 yrs. Still financing the car after warranties are over.

Should I still consider the leaf? Will the electric powertrain and battery be an issue in the long term?

I always keep my cars over 10yrs. I still have my '10 Prius that I bought in '09.
Even if you get the 62 KWH battery, you will still need to charge it every day. 250 charge cycles a year plus weekends. In 4 or 5 years the battery will be down 30% and barely adequate for the commute in good weather. If you intend to keep it 10 years, this is not the car for you. A Tesla would work but is probably more than you want to spend. If your electricity is cheap enough, you might save enough in fuel costs to justify it though. Otherwise buy the Prime.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

danrjones
Posts: 810
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Prime or Leaf SL+ this weekend

Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:43 am

johnlocke wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:19 am
Fussion101 wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:42 am
First time poster here looking for some advice.

I'm going to be purchasing either a prime or leaf this weekend to take advantage of the 0% financing 60/mo and ev incentives.

I test drove both and really leaning towards the leaf. I love the way it drives, interior, and the fact I don't have to visit the gas station every 2-3 days.

However, my round trip for work is 140miles. So it's going to be ~30k miles per year. I'll be passed the powertrain warranty in 2 yrs and battery in 3.5 yrs. Still financing the car after warranties are over.

Should I still consider the leaf? Will the electric powertrain and battery be an issue in the long term?

I always keep my cars over 10yrs. I still have my '10 Prius that I bought in '09.
Even if you get the 62 KWH battery, you will still need to charge it every day. 250 charge cycles a year plus weekends. In 4 or 5 years the battery will be down 30% and barely adequate for the commute in good weather. If you intend to keep it 10 years, this is not the car for you. A Tesla would work but is probably more than you want to spend. If your electricity is cheap enough, you might save enough in fuel costs to justify it though. Otherwise buy the Prime.
Have you looked at the Hyundai Kona EV or Kia Niro EV? They both have better range, a better battery system that will last longer, and are good vehicles that have been well rated. I have sat in both (last time while getting my first leaf service) and like them. I like the Niro ev better on the inside, and more space, but the Hyundai has more range. You will pay a bit more, and they are harder to obtain. As to plugin hybrids, don't forget the rav4 plugin is coming soon as well.

In my area my real highway range for the 40 kWh version seems to be closer to 100 to 120 miles than 150. I seem to average about 3.3 miles per kWh on the open road at real speeds.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

Fussion101
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:20 am
Delivery Date: 31 Jan 2020

Re: Prime or Leaf SL+ this weekend

Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:40 pm

Thanks for the input everyone.

There's only one lvl2 charging station at work but it is always taken so I'm going to be charging 240v at home. $.08/kwh

Looks like wanting 10 years out of the battery is an unrealistic expectation on my part. Let's say I'm willing to replace the battery in 5yrs or when it's down to 30% (can't find cost of 62kwh replacement). Will all the other electric powertrain parts last 10yrs before needing to be replaced? I know nothing is guaranteed but just based on owners experience in this forum.

Haven't really considered the Hyundai but I'm looking into the Kona EV right now since you mentioned it. It seems like this is a new model for them so not sure of the reliability. I know Nissan and Toyota have been doing this for a while so they were on the top of my list.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 16163
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Prime or Leaf SL+ this weekend

Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:49 pm

Another issue to consider: while the battery in the Prime will likely last 10 years, it too will lose capacity. Our 2013 Prius PHEV (aka "PIP") has already lost about 33% of its capacity, despite being treated carefully to preserve the battery. The Prime would still function normally and get great gas mileage after 6 or 7 years, but don't count on the electric range staying above 20 miles - or even 15.

My point is that your combination of a long commute and the desire for a 10 year EV or PHEV may not be practical. I suggest you either consider a longer range EV as suggested, or revise the length of time you plan to keep it. Or get the Prime. In the last case, expect to hate the car well before 10 years is up. :| If you prefer the sportier driving characteristics of the Leaf, then the Prime won't satisfy you. The Model Y may be what you want, but I'm not going to recommend a new Tesla model, given their spotty quality control record.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

WetEV
Posts: 4132
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Prime or Leaf SL+ this weekend

Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:29 pm

Fussion101 wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:40 pm
Looks like wanting 10 years out of the battery is an unrealistic expectation on my part. Let's say I'm willing to replace the battery in 5yrs or when it's down to 30% (can't find cost of 62kwh replacement). Will all the other electric powertrain parts last 10yrs before needing to be replaced? I know nothing is guaranteed but just based on owners experience in this forum.
There are 2011's still running around. The one's that didn't make it had tree limbs fall on them, hit by pickups and VW's and had batteries die after the warranty. Yes, there have been some misc. failures. Charger, parking brake, door handles. Some cheep to fix, some not worth fixing. Doesn't seem to be any common large problem. Mostly the LEAFs just keep going.

For a commute I recommend a EPA range roughly twice that. More or less depending on details. Mild weather, lower speeds, less range margin for a commute. Colder or hotter weather, higher speeds, more range needed for a commute. Bad weather, detours and errands, climate controls, and batteries degrade.

The Bolt at 259 miles would be closest. Not everyone likes the seats. Probably the Prime would be a better choice.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

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