coleafrado

Poll: would you buy a $500 Tesla Supercharger or CCS -> CHAdeMO adapter? What would you risk to make it happen?

Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:13 pm

Nissan (and others) seem dead-set on keeping CHAdeMO and CCS alive. Tesla itself is the only auto manufacturer to produce connectors that bridge the electrical (and socioeconomic) gap between differing charging standards - once a year, they produce batches of CHAdeMO to Tesla DCFC adapters, sold for $450 but usually arbitraged over to eBay at $600-800. Tesla owners get permanent access to the entire US Tesla+CHAdeMO DC fast charging network for a measly one-time fee of whatever they pay for the adapter - everyone else is left in the dust.

If you could buy a cable/connector that would allow your Leaf to charge from Superchargers or CCS DCFC at ordinary CHAdeMO speeds, and with fees comparable to EA or EVgo memberships, would you buy it? If you live in Europe, would you buy a similar connector to convert between Tesla's modified Type 2 and your car's Type 2 / CCS inlet?

How much would you, personally, be willing to risk on a campaign to lobby the US Department(s) of Energy+Transportation and Federal Trade Commission to mandate (in the interest of US transportation security) that all charging networks allow EVs with any default connector to use adapters for quick-charging at any station?

Tesla has claimed that they'll let other manufacturers use the Supercharging network provided they shoulder some of the infrastructure cost. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesl ... r-network/
Last edited by coleafrado on Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

WetEV
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Re: POLL: Would you buy a $500 Tesla Supercharger or CCS -> CHAdeMO adapter? What would you risk to make it happen?

Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:42 pm

I'd rather see Tesla use open charging standards.
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cwerdna
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Re: POLL: Would you buy a $500 Tesla Supercharger or CCS -> CHAdeMO adapter? What would you risk to make it happen?

Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:03 pm

coleafrado wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:13 pm
Tesla has claimed that they'll let other manufacturers use the Supercharging network provided they shoulder some of the infrastructure cost. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesl ... r-network/
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/elon-mu ... r-network/ is usually what I point people to (from 2015).
“Our Supercharger network is not intended to be a walled garden,” said Musk. “It’s intended to be available to other manufacturers if they’d like to use it. The only requirements are that the cars must be able to take the power output of our Superchargers, and then just pay whatever their proportion their usage is of the system. We’re actually in talks with some manufacturers about doing just that, and it will be exciting to share that news.”
If Tesla's requirements stood, I'm not sure how willing Nissan would be willing pay given that they weren't doing so well financially even before the COVID-19 reared its head in a big way outside China.

GM said no: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... vy-bolt-ev. They even did https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/28/business ... index.html:
Neither company plans to put money into this project, though. The two companies will create a separate corporation to build the charging network and other companies are being invited to invest in it. Neither GM nor Bechtel would name potential investors while discussions are still ongoing.
Great! They won't put any skin in the game yet they want other people/companies to?

Thanks to dieselgate, VW already created its wholly owned subsidiary for EV charging: Electrify America. And, given their rollouts, they seem to be doing the bare minimum for CHAdeMO and stacking the deck in favor of their own brands (e.g. VW, Audi and Porsche) w/all or virtually all sites only have 1 CHAdeMO handle vs. multiple SAE Combo.

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DougWantsALeaf
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Re: POLL: Would you buy a $500 Tesla Supercharger or CCS -> CHAdeMO adapter? What would you risk to make it happen?

Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:57 am

The EA, Greenlots, EVGo, etc.. chargers now make cross country treks possible. That wasn’t true 2 years ago.
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coleafrado

Re: POLL: Would you buy a $500 Tesla Supercharger or CCS -> CHAdeMO adapter? What would you risk to make it happen?

Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:23 pm

cwerdna wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:03 pm
If Tesla's requirements stood, I'm not sure how willing Nissan would be willing pay given that they weren't doing so well financially even before the COVID-19 reared its head in a big way outside China.
Tesla's requirements are probably irrelevant to the DoE/DoT and FTC.

johnlocke
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Re: POLL: Would you buy a $500 Tesla Supercharger or CCS -> CHAdeMO adapter? What would you risk to make it happen?

Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:31 pm

coleafrado wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:13 pm
Nissan (and others) seem dead-set on keeping CHAdeMO and CCS alive. Tesla itself is the only auto manufacturer to produce connectors that bridge the electrical (and socioeconomic) gap between differing charging standards - once a year, they produce batches of CHAdeMO to Tesla DCFC adapters, sold for $450 but usually arbitraged over to eBay at $600-800. Tesla owners get permanent access to the entire US Tesla+CHAdeMO DC fast charging network for a measly one-time fee of whatever they pay for the adapter - everyone else is left in the dust.

If you could buy a cable/connector that would allow your Leaf to charge from Superchargers or CCS DCFC at ordinary CHAdeMO speeds, and with fees comparable to EA or EVgo memberships, would you buy it? If you live in Europe, would you buy a similar connector to convert between Tesla's modified Type 2 and your car's Type 2 / CCS inlet?

How much would you, personally, be willing to risk on a campaign to lobby the US Department(s) of Energy+Transportation and Federal Trade Commission to mandate (in the interest of US transportation security) that all charging networks allow EVs with any default connector to use adapters for quick-charging at any station?

Tesla has claimed that they'll let other manufacturers use the Supercharging network provided they shoulder some of the infrastructure cost. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesl ... r-network/
CCS and Tesla are the defacto standards now. Chademo is dying a slow death in the US. EVGO is starting to install Tesla plugs on their equipment. If you could build a CCS to Chademo adaptor, it would enable Leafs to charge at a lot more places. Tesla will block third party adapters to their equipment because of the liability issues. Tesla is making and selling ten times as many cars as all the other manufacturers combined and they're just getting started. No reason for them change plugs. It would be nice if they added a CCS plug like they do for Europe but it's not necessary since they already have the largest network anyway.

I might buy a $200 CCS to Chademo adapter just for the convenience but I'm not going to pay $500 for one.
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coleafrado

Re: POLL: Would you buy a $500 Tesla Supercharger or CCS -> CHAdeMO adapter? What would you risk to make it happen?

Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:46 pm

johnlocke wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:31 pm
Tesla will block third party adapters to their equipment because of the liability issues.
Regulatory action can easily remedy this.

Zythryn
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Re: POLL: Would you buy a $500 Tesla Supercharger or CCS -> CHAdeMO adapter? What would you risk to make it happen?

Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:06 pm

coleafrado wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:46 pm
johnlocke wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:31 pm
Tesla will block third party adapters to their equipment because of the liability issues.
Regulatory action can easily remedy this.
No, I don’t think they can. I definitely don’t think they should, even if they could.
The other car companies were given the chance to join in, they didn’t. End of story.
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cwerdna
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Re: POLL: Would you buy a $500 Tesla Supercharger or CCS -> CHAdeMO adapter? What would you risk to make it happen?

Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:08 pm

johnlocke wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:31 pm
Chademo is dying a slow death in the US. EVGO is starting to install Tesla plugs on their equipment.
By attaching a CHAdeMO to Tesla North American plug adapter on some of their DC FCs: https://www.evgo.com/tesla-charging/.

https://www.evgo.com/wp-content/uploads ... 16x570.jpg has a larger/more visible pic.
Last edited by cwerdna on Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: POLL: Would you buy a $500 Tesla Supercharger or CCS -> CHAdeMO adapter? What would you risk to make it happen?

Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:37 pm

Hmmm. Not for $500. But an ability to tap into the Tesla network would be of some interest, potentially changing our approach to using this car.

For now, we don’t charge away from home. Don’t need to. Don’t expect to. So it’s more of theoretical interest.

Either a CCS or Tesla adapter for $150 might be of interest, pending more info on battery degradation when fast charging. I don’t see us spending more than that. Might go a little higher for the Tesla version.
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