EVornottoEV
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:54 am

Re: Buying a used leaf in 2020

Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:40 am

PrairieLEAF wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:38 am
EVornottoEV wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:23 am
Question for anyone, do the new Leafs still have passive cooling for the batteries meaning they could still suffer in hotter climates, such as mine (Los Angeles)?
Indeed...battery cooling is still passive on new LEAFs.

With all the new EVs available in CA, you may want to select one with battery cooling.
Thanks! I’ve been looking at the Kona and Niro as well.
Last edited by EVornottoEV on Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

PrairieLEAF
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:58 am
Delivery Date: 04 Feb 2019
Location: Weld County, Colorado

Re: Buying a used leaf in 2020

Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:47 am

EVornottoEV wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:40 am
Thanks! It’s hard to find info. I’ve been looking at the Kona and Niro as well.
They seem to get good reviews, and Consumer Reports gives them higher reliability scores than the new LEAF.

Also, don't dismiss Tesla. The Model 3 is an incredible value when you consider the tech, performance, space utilization, and charging infrastructure.

I consider the Kona-EV and e-Niro alternatives for those who want their cars to be more familiar and conventional (dash layout, instruments, motor location, etc), but if you're ready for a departure from the norms, I would go Tesla!
2016 LEAF S-30 w/QC "Lexie"

EVornottoEV
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:54 am

Re: Buying a used leaf in 2020

Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:50 am

PrairieLEAF wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:47 am

They seem to get good reviews, and Consumer Reports gives them higher reliability scores than the new LEAF.

Also, don't dismiss Tesla. The Model 3 is an incredible value when you consider the tech, performance, space utilization, and charging infrastructure.

I consider the Kona-E and e-Niro alternatives for those who want their cars to be more familiar and conventional (dash layout, instruments, motor location, etc), but if you're ready for a departure from the norms, I would go Tesla!
They are nice but the lack of $7500 tax credit is a bit of a deal breaker. It ends up costing a lot more after everything is said and done.

PrairieLEAF
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:58 am
Delivery Date: 04 Feb 2019
Location: Weld County, Colorado

Re: Buying a used leaf in 2020

Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:14 am

Gotcha!

I've heard good things about the Hyundai Ioniq EV...you might check them out with the Kona-EV.
Last edited by PrairieLEAF on Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2016 LEAF S-30 w/QC "Lexie"

countryleaf
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:58 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2011
Leaf Number: 316573
Location: West Puget Sound, WA

Re: Buying a used leaf in 2020

Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:49 pm

One thing that sold us on the Leaf is the Heat Pump heater. We live in NW Washington and use the heater much more than AC, and battery cooling is not an issue in our climate. I am not sure how many of the other EVs have a Heat Pump, when we were looking it seemed that not many had it.
2019 Leaf SL Plus, Scarlet Ember Tintcoat, picked up on 30 September 2019
JuiceBox Pro 40 Amp EVSE Charger
----------
2011 Red Leaf, bought new in 12/2011, sold 5/28/19, 67,XXX miles, 10 of 12 battery bars
Blink L2 Charger (replaced)

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1999
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Buying a used leaf in 2020

Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:02 pm

Between Nissan discounts, dealer discounts, state rebates, and federal tax credit, the Leaf can be a best value EV, depending on your needs. Build quality is consistantly very good, and safety is excellent (and gets accoladed for it).

Even in warmer weather (we have some board members in Phoenix, and managing pretty well, given the temps), the newer (2018+) Leaf has been doing pretty well from a durability/usability perspective. I don't want to dismiss the thermal mgmt question, but if you get a Plus, it becomes an issue only on days over 500 miles in some climates. A little planning can often mitigate many of the issues reported, depending on driving style.

No, its not Tesla fast or cool. But it is fully capable enough for most needs. We have 2 Leaf Plus models (2019 S+ and 2019 SV+). We had a 2013 Leaf we tried due to the super cheap Leases from that era (though you can find similar leases now in some places). We traded our 2013 for a 2019 Leaf Plus SV and then this year traded our Kia Sedonna (2007) minivan for a 2019 Leaf S+. Our kids our 18,16, and 12. Yes, we will cram them in at times, but with more drivers, having two capable EVs for College, school, appts. was key. We dumped the minivan, because no one wanted to drive it anymore. Because the Leaf has great cargo, we can do most things we could haul with the minivan (costco, pingong table, buffet tables, camping, etc.). After discounts/credits, I jumped too soon on our SV+, and paid a net 31K+tax last year and this year bought our 2019 (new) S+ post discounts/credits for 23K. If we lived in CA, CO, or NJ the price for the S+ would have been in the teens (that would have been sweet). Because the S+ has android auto, I find I don't really miss too many of the features in the SV+ (though the remote heat/AC is a must for my wife).

While I have done multi day driving trips in the SV+ last year (college visits in the midwest, Door County), our trips this year have been in the 200-250 mile range, so we have been able to do them on 1 charge. A little technique when driving can help get you 10% farther without compromising reasonable highway speeds (70).

The Model 3, Niro, Kona, Polestar, Bolt, Ionic, are also all very cool, and if fit your needs also possibly very good values. We have stuck with the Leaf as our 2013 was great (battery held up very well), and everyone likes to drive it. We did test drive a Bolt and Tesla prior to the trade ins, but always came back. Having a good local dealer which gives us free charges, snacks, car washes, and service doesn't hurt either. If Niro was available in the midwest (and dealers supported it), I might have been tempted to get that as it has a bit better range and battery capacity....hard to tell if price would have been much different. Wife hated the Telsa, so that was a no go. I personally, am not a fan of Tesla retaining some control over your car features, of which you can't always control. Coming from the software business, it feels more like a limited license, not a hardware purchase. None of care about the power or cornering as our cars, certainly not for an extra 10K or more (the difference in cost at the time). But in LA, you might feel like the Leaf Plus is only barely enough....

Chademo and CCS (for us) right now are kind of at parity, though within my immediate circumference Chademos still outnumber CCS slightly. I haven't had the need for more than 2 Chademo charges on a trip (with destination L2 filling in at longer stops), so haven't had any notable chargegate issues, even in summer. That may feel very different in 3 years. For now, the Chademo options we have now vs. 2013 are night and day.

Good luck with your decision
2019 S Plus (97.98% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.84% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

EVornottoEV
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:54 am

Re: Buying a used leaf in 2020

Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:44 am

I found a 2013 with 11/12 bars and a good price. When looking at it, how can I verify the battery health? Would leafspy be the best way? I'm worried the car somehow has less bars but they did a battery reset recently. How can I tell for sure with such a small amount of time to look at it?

SageBrush
Posts: 5189
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Buying a used leaf in 2020

Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:06 am

EVornottoEV wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:44 am
I found a 2013 with 11/12 bars and a good price. When looking at it, how can I verify the battery health? Would leafspy be the best way? I'm worried the car somehow has less bars but they did a battery reset recently. How can I tell for sure with such a small amount of time to look at it?
LS may miss a reset.
Go for a 20+ mile r/t drive and calculate delta KWh / delta SoC
delta kWh is calculated by zeroing a trip meter and using the miles driven and kWh/mile read-outs.

If that is unclear to you, drive the 20+ miles on a freeway at 60 mph and calculate 100* (miles/SoC delta). A result below 70 miles would be suspect.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15330
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Buying a used leaf in 2020

Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:01 pm

I would say that the above test should yield a range more like 60 miles, for an 11 bar leaf.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 5189
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Buying a used leaf in 2020

Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:32 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:01 pm
I would say that the above test should yield a range more like 60 miles, for an 11 bar leaf.
Show your arithmetic

Side comment: arguing over 10 miles range says something about the LEAF of that generation
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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