rasgaroo
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:03 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Jun 2020

Limiting charge to LESS than 80%

Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:54 pm

Here's my dilemma:

I usually travel less than 5 miles a day. If I charge my 2014 leaf to 80%, it will have to hold that charge for several weeks, or months.

I have been told that keeping a leaf charged higher than 50% for a long period is bad for the battery.

...

I think it can do better if I can limit the charging to like 45%. But I don't see a way to configure it below 80%. I can keep monitoring from time to time and cut the power when it reaches 45% - 50%.

But I have also been told that externally cutting the power or pulling the plug out before the car cuts if off is also bad for the battery.

Is there any truth to the last claim?

What do you suggest the best thing I can do in this situation?
Owns a Nissan leaf 2014. Lives in a tropical country (temp. around 85F/30C).

cwerdna
Posts: 10989
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Limiting charge to LESS than 80%

Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:02 pm

rasgaroo wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:54 pm
But I have also been told that externally cutting the power or pulling the plug out before the car cuts if off is also bad for the battery.

Is there any truth to the last claim?
No, but if you were to cut power, you should do it right (e.g. pushing the button on the J1772 handle to terminate charging or via timers). Do NOT pull the plug on the wall side of any EVSE while still actively charging. You will likely have arcing and that can lead to problems on that end later.

Also, some L2 EVSEs like Juicebox from what I hear let you specify a target charge level and can stop early (which is safe) when it guesses the charge level has been reached. You need to input your current/starting % SoC since the J1772 protocol doesn't have any means for the car to tell the EVSE the car's SOC (unlike for DC charging).

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 5155
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Limiting charge to LESS than 80%

Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:45 pm

rasgaroo wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:54 pm
I usually travel less than 5 miles a day. If I charge my 2014 leaf to 80%, it will have to hold that charge for several weeks, or months.
I'm not following your arithmetic
80% charge is somewhere in the range of 50 - 60 miles, so you remove 10% of your charge daily

I think you are fine, but figure you use ~ 1 kWh a day. Do you know the kW charge rate of your EVSE ? Say it is 6 kW. Then if you want to charge once a week you will charge for one hour.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

rasgaroo
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:03 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Jun 2020

Re: Limiting charge to LESS than 80%

Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:38 am

cwerdna wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:02 pm
No, but if you were to cut power, you should do it right (e.g. pushing the button on the J1772 handle to terminate charging or via timers). Do NOT pull the plug on the wall side of any EVSE while still actively charging. You will likely have arcing and that can lead to problems on that end later.
I thought that button only unlatches the handle. Are you saying that pushing that button electrically terminates charging?

When I want to cut power, I turn off the circuit breaker which is dedicated to charging the leaf. Is that safe?
cwerdna wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:02 pm
Also, some L2 EVSEs like Juicebox from what I hear let you specify a target charge level...
I don't have an L2 charger, I think. I mean all I have is the one that came with the car:
Image
Owns a Nissan leaf 2014. Lives in a tropical country (temp. around 85F/30C).

rasgaroo
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:03 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Jun 2020

Re: Limiting charge to LESS than 80%

Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:41 am

SageBrush wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:45 pm
rasgaroo wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:54 pm
I usually travel less than 5 miles a day. If I charge my 2014 leaf to 80%, it will have to hold that charge for several weeks, or months.
I'm not following your arithmetic
80% charge is somewhere in the range of 50 - 60 miles, so you remove 10% of your charge daily
Umm.... but I travel only two or three days a week! :D
SageBrush wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:45 pm
I think you are fine, but figure you use ~ 1 kWh a day. Do you know the kW charge rate of your EVSE ? Say it is 6 kW. Then if you want to charge once a week you will charge for one hour.
That's what I was trying to do (without actually doing the math though). It's just I was told that suddenly cutting power without 'informing' the car first can be bad for the battery.
Owns a Nissan leaf 2014. Lives in a tropical country (temp. around 85F/30C).

cwerdna
Posts: 10989
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Limiting charge to LESS than 80%

Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:46 am

rasgaroo wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:38 am
I thought that button only unlatches the handle. Are you saying that pushing that button electrically terminates charging?
Yes. See https://openev.freshdesk.com/support/so ... -sae-j1772 under proximity. Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772#Safety. https://www.sae.org/binaries/content/as ... primer.pdf and http://www.fveaa.org/fb/J1772_386.pdf might also be insightful.

Next time when it's charging, hold down the button and wait for the thunk from the car. Observe that the car stops charging while you hold down the button.

Also, if you want to trigger an error, if you plug in while holding down the trigger, you will probably get all 3 blue lights on Leaf flashing in unison with beep-beep-beep-pause which repeats until you let go of it the trigger.
rasgaroo wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:38 am
When I want to cut power, I turn off the circuit breaker which is dedicated to charging the leaf. Is that safe?
I wouldn't advise always doing that. You'll wear out the breaker and there might be arcing inside it.

I was suggesting that you could get an L2 EVSE like Juicebox that lets you set a target SoC %.
rasgaroo wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:41 am
It's just I was told that suddenly cutting power without 'informing' the car first can be bad for the battery.
Who said that? Cutting power the wrong way can be bad for whatever arcs outside the car. It's not bad for the battery.

Ways to properly stop include: pressing the J1772 handle trigger, having the EVSE properly stop (e.g. via a stop button (some have it like https://www.plugincars.com/curious-what ... 06524.html), software to stop it, swiping an RFID card, etc.), or the car stopping like via charging timer.

(It can also be bad if the J1772 handle latch/tang is broken and you can pull the J1772 handle out of the car WITHOUT pressing the trigger while the car's charging. You might get arcing --> bad for inlet and handle.)

What trim level of Leaf do you have? If it's an SV or SL (has nav system), the charging timers are pretty easy to set. You can have it start late and/or end early. If it's an S trim, the timers are a pain to set.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

rasgaroo
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:03 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Jun 2020

Re: Limiting charge to LESS than 80%

Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:29 am

cwerdna wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:46 am
Yes. See https://openev.freshdesk.com/support/so ... -sae-j1772 under proximity. Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772#Safety. https://www.sae.org/binaries/content/as ... primer.pdf and http://www.fveaa.org/fb/J1772_386.pdf might also be insightful.

Next time when it's charging, hold down the button and wait for the thunk from the car. Observe that the car stops charging while you hold down the button.

Also, if you want to trigger an error, if you plug in while holding down the trigger, you will probably get all 3 blue lights on Leaf flashing in unison with beep-beep-beep-pause which repeats until you let go of it the trigger.
Wow! I never knew it could do any of that. Thanks a lot!

cwerdna wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:46 am
rasgaroo wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:41 am
It's just I was told that suddenly cutting power without 'informing' the car first can be bad for the battery.
Who said that?
A guy at a local not-so-authorized nissan service center :) . His reasoning was like that there is a bunch of things the car needs to do with the battery circuit when it is about to stop charging, and if you stop charging without 'informing' the car first, the car wouldn't have enough time to do all those things, which can eventually be bad for the battery. It's fairly possible that he made it up on the spot! :)

cwerdna wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:46 am
What trim level of Leaf do you have? If it's an SV or SL (has nav system), the charging timers are pretty easy to set. You can have it start late and/or end early. If it's an S trim, the timers are a pain to set.
It's an X trim. Setting up a start/stop timer sounds like an excellent idea! I remember I saw that feature (thanks to the google translator) on the nav system, but I never realized that I could use it for this purpose.

Thanks a lot again!
Owns a Nissan leaf 2014. Lives in a tropical country (temp. around 85F/30C).

SageBrush
Posts: 5155
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Limiting charge to LESS than 80%

Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:31 am

rasgaroo wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:41 am
SageBrush wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:45 pm
rasgaroo wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:54 pm
I usually travel less than 5 miles a day. If I charge my 2014 leaf to 80%, it will have to hold that charge for several weeks, or months.
I'm not following your arithmetic
80% charge is somewhere in the range of 50 - 60 miles, so you remove 10% of your charge daily
Umm.... but I travel only two or three days a week! :D
SageBrush wrote:
Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:45 pm
I think you are fine, but figure you use ~ 1 kWh a day. Do you know the kW charge rate of your EVSE ? Say it is 6 kW. Then if you want to charge once a week you will charge for one hour.
That's what I was trying to do (without actually doing the math though). It's just I was told that suddenly cutting power without 'informing' the car first can be bad for the battery.
You have your answer from cwerdna how to stop a charge properly.

If you know when your next drive is, then charge an hour or two earlier to 80%, drive down to 70% and you are good.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

cwerdna
Posts: 10989
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Limiting charge to LESS than 80%

Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:37 am

rasgaroo wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:29 am
It's an X trim. Setting up a start/stop timer sounds like an excellent idea! I remember I saw that feature (thanks to the google translator) on the nav system, but I never realized that I could use it for this purpose.
We don't have an X trim in the US. We have S, SV and SL. From https://samholford.github.io/leafguide/, I guess X is like SV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeR0SXzQdto may help. You might have an 80/100% toggle that's not on '14+ US Leafs.

I found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZaPaTqVAls. I haven't verified its accuracy. I'm guessing you have a JDM import?

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

rasgaroo
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:03 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Jun 2020

Re: Limiting charge to LESS than 80%

Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:50 am

cwerdna wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:37 am
I'm guessing you have a JDM import?
Yes. I use google translator on my cell phone to navigate through that japanese :)
Owns a Nissan leaf 2014. Lives in a tropical country (temp. around 85F/30C).

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