Bouldergramp
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:36 am
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2018
Leaf Number: 317621
Location: COLORADO

Re: Boulder to Denver at 90 mph

Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:00 pm

There was very little neighborhood driving on our route. Google maps says the route is 30.2 miles and it takes 35 min in the usual traffic. Sunday afternoon was probably not usual traffic. I did not time our trip but I recall leaving Boulder after 4:30 and arriving before our 5:00 pm dinner date. I only noticed the high speed on our return trip.
As I said, "It was an interesting first trip on an interstate. We didn't drive the entire trip at 90 but I don't think she ever got down to the posted speed limits."

lorenfb
Posts: 2464
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Boulder to Denver at 90 mph

Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:11 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 6:42 pm
lorenfb wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:21 pm
salyavin wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:05 am
for that distance of drive it is fine at 90mph out here. Waste of charge but will not build up enough heat to cook the battery. It's really the DCFCs that get you as it can't get rid of heat as you know but they didn't need that. Remember 30 miles there and 30 miles back.
So you've checked the battery temperature after a lengthy drive at 90 MPH with the AC on with a 10-15 degree temp differential, right?
Or are you just guessing, if not provide your temperature readings using LeafSpy. Also, are you claiming like some that a moving Leaf
can reduce the battery's temperature, if so fully example how that can occur. So given your inference, TMS is only necessary when QCing,
and neither ambient temperatures nor temperature rises due to motor currents require TMS, right?
I had the same thought as you Loren but if he really did use 40% of the 40 kWh battery to travel 60 miles that works out to 266 Wh/mile. No way anything but a small part of the drive was much over 65 mph.

As you say, a 45 minute drive at 90 mph would cook the battery. I don't have the LEAF CdA handy but the Bolt Aero resistance is 800 Newton at 87 mph, equal to about 32 kW. The LEAF will be higher, and the other losses and AC are icing on the cake. Easily a CHAdeMO equivalent and without any taper :lol:
Isn't his vehicle is a Leaf 2 (62 kWh battery), which results in 24.8 kWh (40% of 62 kWh) for 60 miles (2.4 miles/kWh, 413 Wh/mile),
which sounds about what one would expect his efficiency to be at a speed much much greater than 55-60 MPH.
My 40 kWh Leaf at 50-55 MPH does about 4.5 - 5.0 miles/kWh (212 Wh/mile). At 90 MPH is going to be significantly higher (~ 2X, (1.5)^2).

Bottom line: He really needed to have provided a battery temperature reading using LeafSpy.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 76K miles, 47 Ahrs, 5.0 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=73, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 10.3K miles, SOH 109Ahrs/115Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

Bouldergramp
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:36 am
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2018
Leaf Number: 317621
Location: COLORADO

Re: Boulder to Denver at 90 mph

Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:37 pm

Good grief! I am a retired electrical engineer with a MSEE. I am not interested in Leaf Spy or charging my 2018 Leaf S battery to 80% to preserve its life. It is charging in the garage now plugged into a 220V outlet. I will unplug it in the morning.
I just thought the trip to Denver and back was interesting.

salyavin
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:51 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Dec 2019
Leaf Number: 318726
Location: Littleton , CO

Re: Boulder to Denver at 90 mph

Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:51 pm

lorenfb this is at least the 2nd time I've seen you trolling. I implore you to get some actual experience with a LEAF beyond driving it as a NEV. I would stay out of these discussions as you are clearly not experienced and only seem to be here to bother people.

As I mentioned earlier I am the one who did indeed lose temp on I-70 from 55C where I hit the 2nd red bar. This is full interstate speed on Vail pass when took me below all red markers. This was this summer. Losing heat in winter at speed on the interstate is more dramatic.

regarding the distance it is 30 miles from Boulder to Denver, I live in the area. he would not have driven 90 the whole time and had a rest before the return trip as he arrived somewhere. We are not talking about 60 miles at once driven at that speed more like 20 probably less. with a rest period then perhaps a 2nd 20 miles at that speed. I would be surprised if we are talking as much as 20 each way though, traffic will not often allow that.

Your general idea of driving 100 miles at a 90 miles an hour is a very bad idea in even a LEAF Plus, I fully support. Under 20 I am not too bothered about you will not "red line" the battery which is my qualification for cooking a battery. Come back when you have some experience with a gen 2 LEAF and can actually add something.

SageBrush
Posts: 5155
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Boulder to Denver at 90 mph

Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:35 am

Bouldergramp wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:37 pm
I just thought the trip to Denver and back was interesting.
Sure.
Next time if you do not mind, take a peek at the temperature gauge at the end of the trip.
By the way, do you have a 40 or 62 kWh LEAF ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 5155
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Boulder to Denver at 90 mph

Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:46 am

salyavin wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:51 pm
Under 20 I am not too bothered about you will not "red line" the battery which is my qualification for cooking a battery.
Considerable damage occurs to the battery below the red line. If e.g. we are talking about 100F Vs 70F battery temperature the former has ~ 3x the degradation rate. You can ignore it but people who do not are hardly trolls. Similarly, ignorance such as you are displaying does not make someone clued in like Loren a troll.

As for whether the battery reaches the red line after 20 miles of 90 mph driving -- I'm not sure but we can reason a little**:
Figure 40 kW on level terrain, so about equivalent to the 'rapid' phase of CHAdeMO charging for ~ 15 minutes. What does your experience tell you if you start with a battery at 80F ? Now, do it again on the return home. If you think that the stop before returning home of an hour or 2 leads to considerable battery cooling, I have a bridge to sell you.

** We can also calculate resistance losses in the battery at ~ 125 Amps and calculate temperature rise based on heat capacity but I don't think anybody would read it other than Loren (and he already knows the result) so I'll skip the calculation.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Bouldergramp
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:36 am
Delivery Date: 15 Oct 2018
Leaf Number: 317621
Location: COLORADO

Re: Boulder to Denver at 90 mph

Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:13 am

SageBrush wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:35 am
Bouldergramp wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:37 pm
I just thought the trip to Denver and back was interesting.
Sure.
Next time if you do not mind, take a peek at the temperature gauge at the end of the trip.
By the way, do you have a 40 or 62 kWh LEAF ?
Our car is a 2018 Leaf S. It has a 40 kWh battery. I have never examined the display menu and did not know it had a temperature gauge. I would think the downhill run into Boulder from Davidson Mesa would tend to cool things off.

SageBrush
Posts: 5155
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Boulder to Denver at 90 mph

Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:28 pm

Bouldergramp wrote:
Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:13 am
I would think the downhill run into Boulder from Davidson Mesa would tend to cool things off.
Maybe. At least not add to the temp.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1970
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Boulder to Denver at 90 mph

Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:32 pm

I can't speak to the S, but the S+ battery heats more slowly than the SV+ while driving.
2019 S Plus (97.98% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.84% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

Return to “General / Main Owners Forum”