DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15046
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

What are your transportation cost goals?

Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:00 pm

As a 5 time lessee, I have lately begun to wonder if continuous leasing was costing me more money than I wanted to admit so decided to dig out the spreadsheets to see what I have paid over the years.

TLDR; $37,584.33 covering 144,036 miles costing 26 cents per mile. IOW; I just recently paid out slightly more than what my first LEAF would have cost me if I purchased it. Its bad enough that the first LEAF accounts for 45% of that total.

The Dive The above does not include current lease on the Plus (current cost 28.3 cents per mile) or the insurance payout on the S30 which is simply too rare a thing to consider as "normal". It also doesn't include car insurance itself as that varies too much from location to location.

What is in the calculations is payments and fuel costs, both home and public. There were maintenance costs but lost track of the cost and it was pretty small anyway. I purchased a 3 pack of cabin filters and touch paint tube along with a bottle of windshield wiper fluid (still got some left BTW) and 4 sets of wipers (Strangely enough, the 2011 was only LEAF I had more than two years that didn't get a new set??)

So now wondering what others think is an acceptable cost to operate? I can't decide if 26 cents per mile is too much, too little or just right?
Last edited by DaveinOlyWA on Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 5261
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: What is your transportation cost goals?

Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:40 pm

Duration ?
Sounds like ~ $400 a month, of which ~ $30 a month is electricity

If you like the LEAF churn I imagine you will continue even if you end up paying more. I'm a lot happier buying a quality EV that will provide full service for 15 years so I paid $40k for my Tesla Model 3 LR. If my estimate is correct then cost will end up being $222 + electricity + repairs + maintenance.

I was considering a 270 mile drive to El Paso, Texas at ~ 80 mph. ABRP estimates I should stop for 10 minutes to charge en-route. That works for me. There is a lot to said for the no-compromise EV lifestyle.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15473
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: What is your transportation cost goals?

Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:17 pm

Can you fix the Title to replace "is" with "are"? That's going to bug a lot of us, I think. ;)

I think that you have to figure in the "satisfaction factor." If paying more for leases makes you happier overall, then it isn't so much "X dollars per mile" as "Can I easily afford this?"
We've just made the decision in our household to go with one car next Spring. It may or may not prove wise. I can always try to find a $5k iMiev or Leaf as a second car of it doesn't work out.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15046
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: What is your transportation cost goals?

Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:27 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:17 pm
Can you fix the Title to replace "is" with "are"? That's going to bug a lot of us, I think. ;)

I think that you have to figure in the "satisfaction factor." If paying more for leases makes you happier overall, then it isn't so much "X dollars per mile" as "Can I easily afford this?"
We've just made the decision in our household to go with one car next Spring. It may or may not prove wise. I can always try to find a $5k iMiev or Leaf as a second car of it doesn't work out.
In the grand scheme of things; my calculations started when there was a lot less options out there and as mentioned; skipping the 2011 (I had a 2010 Prius that was less than 18 months old when I picked up the SL so I wasn't destitute) would have lowered my cost to nearly half making any "Tesla" advantage many years away from reaching fruition.

As far as the range challenges, the hypermiling, LEAF Spy, etc. I am not sure I would have wanted it any other way but then again, I have never lost a capacity bar so my POV is quite different.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 2599
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: What are your transportation cost goals?

Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:29 pm

My total costs for the 2011 and 2015 (not including insurance premiums) came out to about 26 cents/mile for purchase and maintenance (including insurance settlement on 2011, trade-in allowance on 2015, and Federal tax credits on both) plus 2 cents/mile for fuel (off-peak charging at home) for a total of $0.28/mile. My experience has been that insurance cost on each LEAF has been commensurate with other vehicles of similar size. Insurance premium on 2019 is actually lower than on 2015 (probably due to the added "safety" features such as Pro Pilot and Automatic Emergency Braking).
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

alozzy
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: What are your transportation cost goals?

Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:54 am

I've owned my 2013 SV since January of 2017. I've added about 50000 miles in that time. I paid $10500 CAD for it in cash. I've purchased a set of used tires ($200), a 12V battery ($100), and wiper fluid and nothing else I can think of.

Assuming an average of 4 miles per kWh, that's about 12,500 kWhs of energy consumed. So, maybe 15000 kWh before charging losses. I've paid for roughly 75% of that, free charging for the rest. So, roughly 11000 kWh at $0.07 CAD per kWh, arriving at $770 CAD for electricity costs. Yes, BC has cheap electricity!

Total cost is about $12000 CAD (rounded up), or $0.24 CAD ($12000/50000 miles) per mile. Currency conversion fluctuates a lot, but let's call that $0.19 USD per mile.

I'm not including insurance costs, because we have very costly insurance in British Columbia which would artificially inflate the numbers vs Washington State insurance costs.

Apparently the IRS uses a number of $0.58 USD per mile for the "average" car. So, I guess we can't complain :-)

I should add that I prefer to consider the operating cost per mile, rather than amortizing the capital cost, as my LEAF was paid for on day 1.

On that basis, as EV owners, our operating costs are ridiculously low (so far for me, about $0.03 USD per mile) compared to ICE cars. It's nice that home charging will always be an option, something that's unique to EVs, as eventually there will be no free L3 charging options.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15046
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: What are your transportation cost goals?

Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:37 am

GerryAZ wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:29 pm
My total costs for the 2011 and 2015 (not including insurance premiums) came out to about 26 cents/mile for purchase and maintenance (including insurance settlement on 2011, trade-in allowance on 2015, and Federal tax credits on both) plus 2 cents/mile for fuel (off-peak charging at home) for a total of $0.28/mile. My experience has been that insurance cost on each LEAF has been commensurate with other vehicles of similar size. Insurance premium on 2019 is actually lower than on 2015 (probably due to the added "safety" features such as Pro Pilot and Automatic Emergency Braking).
Good data! So we can expect 25-30 cents per mile to be a good target to aim for.

Anyone compile gasser stats? I have data on the Prius but due to upgrades and accidents, none were owned long enough to be a realistic picture of what could have been accomplished. My 2010 was wrecked (not by me!) and insurance deductible, it ended as a $3000 difference but like the S30 I had the advantage of WA State tax laws on my side as the 2010 Prius bought in May 2009 was a tax free sale so OTD price was less than $29,000 after a preferred customer discount. Paid cash so no financing charges involved. Its total cost was 16 cents per mile but if computing on a 150,000 mile basis and $6,000 trade in value along with estimated maintenance costs we are looking at 24-25 cents per mile. This assumes tires every 55K (which was the average for me) oil changes every 5 K, and no other costs associated which was probably unrealistic hence the range
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 5261
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: What are your transportation cost goals?

Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:23 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:37 am
Anyone compile gasser stats?
My Prius was outstanding. We owned it 10 years and put on 180k miles. I paid $1,836 for repairs and maintenance and sold it for $8k.
I averaged 55 mpg so figure ~ 6 cents a mile.

All told, 25,0000-8,000+10,800 for 180,000 miles
= 15.4 cents a mile
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 5261
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: What are your transportation cost goals?

Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:45 am

Our Prius Prime put about $3,000 into my pocket after a year of ownership. I don't expect to repeat that experience.

Next up on the 'good deal' chart will probably be our 2013 LEAF since maintenance and fuel are inexpensive and we paid $7,000 for it ~ 4 years ago. I imagine that I can sell it now for somewhere in the range of $5,000 -- $7,000 (11 capacity bars) or run it for another 4 or 5 years until EOL. It works out to a TCO * of ~ $50 - $80 a month.

The other advantage of running an older but reliable car is cheaper insurance since I can self-insure the property value and only carry liability. The cost was $15 a month to insure in Colorado and now costs me $25 a month in NM.

* Not including insurance
Last edited by SageBrush on Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 15473
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: What are your transportation cost goals?

Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:23 am

The other problem with cost per mile is that it only works when you drive a lot of miles. My cost per mile is astronomical, for the simple reason that I only drive about 1500 miles a year, now that I'm retired and the Zombie Apocalypse is upon us. Speaking of which, being able to charge inside my garage is priceless.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Return to “General / Main Owners Forum”