GaslessInSeattle
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Leaf Number: 850

Re: larger solar panel/solar roof on Leaf thread

Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:51 pm

Ingineer wrote:
davewill wrote:
GaslessInSeattle wrote:... One could argue that the $110K roadster wasn't exactly practical but it's hard to argue that it didn't help usher in the new age of EV's. Solar panels on cars could help spread awareness of PV in a similar way. The $70 LED lightbulb comes to mind, many early adapters bought them to support the technology and help it reach economy of scale, don't ask about the ROI, you could certainly do better in the stock market ...
But the $110k roadster and the $70 LED flashlight actually worked as a usable car and a usable flashlight...something that mounting a solar panels on a LEAF's doesn't achieve.
I can see the point, but it could also backfire in representing to the common lay-person that you could drive the LEAF on solar power and not have to plug in. Not only would it really not change in any way how you operate the car, it would be somewhat deceptive.

Personally, if I lived in San Diego, Dallas, or somewhere else where there is a lot of sun, I would pay an extra $1k to get the Solar ventilation option. (Like Toyota offers on the Prius) Just keeping the car cool in when parked in the summer sun could offset the hit to the pack from running the A/C full bore upon returning to the car, and also drastically improve comfort.

But connecting said solar array to the pack wouldn't do much unless you park for weeks at a time in the sun and seldom drive.

As I said, put it on your house, then you get dual-benefits!

-Phil
I see you point but don't see how it's deceptive unless someone makes claims about it. Those of us who find solar panels sexy enough to put on a car are likely to add them to our house too, where they really make the difference. I just don't see the problem with it, if there is a market for it and that helps cell more solar panels for now, I'm all for it.
Gasless: Silver 2012 SL, traded in for Lease on 1/13
Tesla S P85, Gray, pano, carbon fiber, took delivery: 2-9-13... LOVE this car!
9.8 kW PV Solar installed 9/12, http://www.westseattlenaturalenergy.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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abasile
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Re: larger solar panel/solar roof on Leaf thread

Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:53 pm

GaslessInSeattle wrote:Without careful thought, electric cars may very well spur the next nuclear energy revolution if they become widely adopted, at least some will argue that, even though EV's stand to reduce baseload waste.
I would like to see another nuclear energy revolution, using the latest, safest, most efficient technology, such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_flu ... um_reactor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. While I am also in favor of renewables, I feel that we need to keep nuclear on the table if we are to rapidly reduce greenhouse gas emissions and improve our long-term energy security.
2011 LEAF at 71K miles, pre-owned 2012 Tesla S 85 at 98K miles
LEAF battery: 9/12 bars and < 49 Ah (-28% vs. new)
Tesla battery: 250+ miles of range (-5% vs. new)

GaslessInSeattle
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Re: larger solar panel/solar roof on Leaf thread

Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:57 pm

davewill wrote:
GaslessInSeattle wrote:... One could argue that the $110K roadster wasn't exactly practical but it's hard to argue that it didn't help usher in the new age of EV's. Solar panels on cars could help spread awareness of PV in a similar way. The $70 LED lightbulb comes to mind, many early adapters bought them to support the technology and help it reach economy of scale, don't ask about the ROI, you could certainly do better in the stock market ...
But the $110k roadster and the $70 LED flashlight actually worked as a usable car and a usable flashlight...something that mounting a solar panels on a LEAF's doesn't achieve.
Um, the Leaf actually works as a usable car, adding solar panels wouldn't change that. Some may think of solar panels on the Leaf as a mater of aesthetics and sex appeal, the way some feel about tricking out their cars with lift kits or dropped suspension or whatever... I'd consider it if it seemed reasonably priced... all of which is entirely subjective, I concede that. There is no objective or scientific justification for solar panels on the Leaf, if Nissan or anyone else claimed otherwise, they'd be misleading the public.
Gasless: Silver 2012 SL, traded in for Lease on 1/13
Tesla S P85, Gray, pano, carbon fiber, took delivery: 2-9-13... LOVE this car!
9.8 kW PV Solar installed 9/12, http://www.westseattlenaturalenergy.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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davewill
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Re: larger solar panel/solar roof on Leaf thread

Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:07 pm

GaslessInSeattle wrote:
davewill wrote:
GaslessInSeattle wrote:... One could argue that the $110K roadster wasn't exactly practical but it's hard to argue that it didn't help usher in the new age of EV's. Solar panels on cars could help spread awareness of PV in a similar way. The $70 LED lightbulb comes to mind, many early adapters bought them to support the technology and help it reach economy of scale, don't ask about the ROI, you could certainly do better in the stock market ...
But the $110k roadster and the $70 LED flashlight actually worked as a usable car and a usable flashlight...something that mounting a solar panels on a LEAF's doesn't achieve.
Um, the Leaf actually works as a usable car, adding solar panels wouldn't change that. ...
But it doesn't work as a solar panel powered car, which it's purporting to be.
2014 Rav4 EV, Blizzard Pearl White
2011 LEAF SL w/QC, Blue Ocean, returned at end of lease

JRP3
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Re: larger solar panel/solar roof on Leaf thread

Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:51 pm

davewill wrote:
JRP3 wrote:I'll throw out another concept, the only way to actually claim the use of solar power for your driving is to use the solar panel output directly. Grid tie doesn't actually count ...
Utter bovine excrement.
Care to debate that with facts? If you have grid tie solar the power goes into the grid. When you plug in your car guess what, the grid sees additional load so additional capacity has to come from somewhere else to compensate.

JRP3
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Re: larger solar panel/solar roof on Leaf thread

Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:54 pm

abasile wrote:
GaslessInSeattle wrote:Without careful thought, electric cars may very well spur the next nuclear energy revolution if they become widely adopted, at least some will argue that, even though EV's stand to reduce baseload waste.
I would like to see another nuclear energy revolution, using the latest, safest, most efficient technology, such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_flu ... um_reactor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. While I am also in favor of renewables, I feel that we need to keep nuclear on the table if we are to rapidly reduce greenhouse gas emissions and improve our long-term energy security.
I agree fully on LFTR's. I'm not sure how we can increase clean, reliable baseload without them.

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davewill
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Re: larger solar panel/solar roof on Leaf thread

Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:35 pm

JRP3 wrote:Care to debate that with facts? ...
No, because your statement wasn't a factual statement. The idea that the most cost effective form of home solar somehow isn't solar is just dumb.
2014 Rav4 EV, Blizzard Pearl White
2011 LEAF SL w/QC, Blue Ocean, returned at end of lease

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planet4ever
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Re: larger solar panel/solar roof on Leaf thread

Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:53 pm

JRP3 wrote:
davewill wrote:
JRP3 wrote:I'll throw out another concept, the only way to actually claim the use of solar power for your driving is to use the solar panel output directly. Grid tie doesn't actually count ...
Utter bovine excrement.
Care to debate that with facts? If you have grid tie solar the power goes into the grid. When you plug in your car guess what, the grid sees additional load so additional capacity has to come from somewhere else to compensate.
I feed power into the grid from my solar panels in the afternoon, at the peak of the grid demand during hot summer days. Thus I am reducing the peak load on the grid. I pull the power back out at night, when the utility has excess generating capacity. My solar panels + LEAF are reducing the the capacity requirement of the grid.

However, I don't claim that my car is solar powered, because overall I pull more power out of the grid than I put in. Perhaps that's what you meant to say, that if I didn't have the LEAF I would be buying less power from the utility. That is true, but my LEAF is not stressing the grid's capacity.

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

GroundLoop
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Re: larger solar panel/solar roof on Leaf thread

Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:29 pm

I wouldn't pay for any solar panels on the car, if I had my option. It's simply the wrong place for solar panels, since the car is frequently covered, at low elevation, and has unpredictable orientation. The safety, aesthetics, and longevity of vehicle-mounted solar panels are also more restrictive than roof-mounted panels.

EVEN the internal parked ventilation would be better off tapping our massive 24kWh battery pack. An interior circulation/cooling option would be much less than 100W, and have no noticeable impact on range. The car is a rolling battery.

Keep the solar panels at home where they make sense, and use the battery when rolling.

As an aside -- I plan to replace my car about 5x as often as my solar panels. It's the wrong place to invest.

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Ingineer
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Re: larger solar panel/solar roof on Leaf thread

Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:10 pm

JRP3 wrote:
davewill wrote:
JRP3 wrote:I'll throw out another concept, the only way to actually claim the use of solar power for your driving is to use the solar panel output directly. Grid tie doesn't actually count ...
Utter bovine excrement.
Care to debate that with facts? If you have grid tie solar the power goes into the grid. When you plug in your car guess what, the grid sees additional load so additional capacity has to come from somewhere else to compensate.
Actually, if you AREN'T using gas in your car, the Electricity saved from just Petroleum Refining and Distribution operations will power your EV and then some. The Largest single consumer of electricity California are Petroleum operations. Assuming you replace a gas car with an EV, and charge off-peak, we end up with a more stable grid, and a little less electricity use.

-Phil
Easily Learn Electricity HERE! - - - - Website: http://evseupgrade.com/[/size] - - - - Like us on Facebook: EVSE Upgrade

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