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davewill
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Location: San Diego, CA, US

Re: Nissan dealerships torturing LEAF batteries

Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:42 am

For a normal service visit, there's no point to these worries that I can see. Battery degradation is a cumulative effect. One, or even a dozen instances for being charged to 100% just isn't a real concern. Of more interest in the long-term storage of LEAFs, especially in hot climates.
2014 Rav4 EV, Blizzard Pearl White
2011 LEAF SL w/QC, Blue Ocean, returned at end of lease

smkettner
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Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Nissan dealerships torturing LEAF batteries

Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:49 am

davewill wrote:For a normal service visit, there's no point to these worries that I can see. Battery degradation is a cumulative effect. One, or even a dozen instances for being charged to 100% just isn't a real concern. Of more interest in the long-term storage of LEAFs, especially in hot climates.
+1, I would worry more about sitting 100% charged for 6+ weeks before the car is initially sold. Especially in over 85F temperatures.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

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RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Nissan dealerships torturing LEAF batteries

Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:56 am

smkettner wrote:
davewill wrote:For a normal service visit, there's no point to these worries that I can see. Battery degradation is a cumulative effect. One, or even a dozen instances for being charged to 100% just isn't a real concern. Of more interest in the long-term storage of LEAFs, especially in hot climates.
+1, I would worry more about sitting 100% charged for 6+ weeks before the car is initially sold. Especially in over 85F temperatures.
Agreed except for the fact that the service and detailing guys deal with all the cars that come through. How about those of us who bought cars which were on the lots for over six months? Here is a good example of what the result can be:
bioburner wrote:Bought a Leaf 2011, 4 months ago ,dealer demo with less than 400 miles on it. noticed right away the range was only 50 to 55 miles per charge from 100% charge. The on board computer is telling me we are getting 4.7 to 5.1 miles/KWH (when using the "Energy history" feature). A tipical recharge time is about 3.5 to maybe max of 4 hours. Seems like only half the battery is being used.!!! Now that summer has hit we use the A/C and get only 42 to 45 miles per charge. Seems to me we should be getting 90 to 110 mile per charge even with the A/C running at minimum. All bars are showing on the SOC meter and the car has a total of less than 1600 miles. During the hot weather we recharge at 2 am to be grid friendly and spare the heat in the battery.
The local dealer is tell me there is nothing wrong with the car and a typical recharge cycle is 10 to 12 KWH but they were unable/willing to explain why it only takes 11 KWH to fully recharge a 24 KWH battery.
Does anybody have an explanation as to what is going on?
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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davewill
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Re: Nissan dealerships torturing LEAF batteries

Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:58 am

RegGuheert wrote:
smkettner wrote:
davewill wrote:For a normal service visit, there's no point to these worries that I can see. Battery degradation is a cumulative effect. One, or even a dozen instances for being charged to 100% just isn't a real concern. Of more interest in the long-term storage of LEAFs, especially in hot climates.
+1, I would worry more about sitting 100% charged for 6+ weeks before the car is initially sold. Especially in over 85F temperatures.
Agreed except for the fact that the service and detailing guys deal with all the cars that come through. How about those of us who bought cars which were on the lots for over six months? ...
Do you even read the posts you reply to?
2014 Rav4 EV, Blizzard Pearl White
2011 LEAF SL w/QC, Blue Ocean, returned at end of lease

eclecticflower
Posts: 575
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:35 am
Delivery Date: 04 Jun 2012
Leaf Number: 021559
Location: Kansas City, Missouri

Re: Nissan dealerships torturing LEAF batteries

Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:03 am

My post was an example of possibly why those cars are sitting on the lots fully charged. My LEAF Specialist didn't seem to make the connection that a somewhat depleted battery wasn't such a bad thing, since he always just plugged in & fully charged my car, even after I requested 80% (this was within my first 2 weeks ownership and no timers set - it has since been set to 80% charge by 6:00 a.m.). It doesn't appear they think about the long-term consequences of leaving these cars parked at a high SOC. Huge learning curve, especially for newly-certified LEAF dealerships, like Kansas City's.
2012 Cayenne Red LEAF SL: Vanity Plate - G'BYGAS
Reserved 08/10, Ordered 3/12/2012, $99 Refunded 5/16/12, Delivered 6/4/12.

thankyouOB
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Leaf Number: 1442
Location: Coastal LA

Re: Nissan dealerships torturing LEAF batteries

Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:22 am

I found the same level on lack of training with my dealership service manager.
He was surprised when I told him NOT to charge to 100% and why.
may reserve/delivery 4/30/11
--
ECOtality/LADWP/ Blink 4/4/11
--
Gardena Nissan, msrp -1k
red SL with etec L3
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Reddy
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Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Nissan dealerships torturing LEAF batteries

Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:35 pm

Just wanted to let folks know that not every dealer is the same. I was just talking with the salesman who sold me the Leaf and reminded him not to leave the batteries full all the time. He was aware of this and mentioned that they often take the Leaf when running errands around town. They had three 2012 Leafs in stock and two were parked under an overhang and will remain completely shaded all day. The third was actually inside at a nicely air conditioned 72 F. Check your dealers carefully, some are better than others.

Reddy
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 45.80 AHr; 45,000 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

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LEAFer
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Leaf Number: 000215
Location: Sacramento Area

Re: Nissan dealerships torturing LEAF batteries

Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:52 pm

The whole "philosophy" needs to be changed -- by Nissan Engineering in firmware.

The "Standard" (or "dummy") default should ALWAYS be 80%.

The timer-override button should over-ride just THAT ... the timer, *NOT* the charge level.

The remotre "climate control" function should do just THAT ... climate control the car, *NOT* the charge level (charging to 100%).

The "Extended Range" or "Full Charge" option should be available on the console as a temporary over-ride feature, but only after putting the car in "ON" mode and acknowledging via the touch screen a "negatively impacts battery life" button. The 100% option should continue to be available via the timers (as it is now), and remotely via CW with the same type of user acknowledgement of battery life impact.

I realize there's an inconvenience for those of us currently just hitting the timer over-ride to go from (timer controlled charging to) 80% to 100% (90 minutes prior to departure), and instead having to jump in the car and turning it "ON" ... but then again you could do it via smart-phone or PC browser, and it's (IMHO) worth the benefit compared to the downsides mentioned in this thread.

Just MHO ... :)
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

bamamarc77
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Leaf Number: 015925

Re: Nissan dealerships torturing LEAF batteries

Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:17 pm

Hey gang,
i guess i'm ambivalent about all of this 80% vs 100% talk. Seems like from the threads there are some folks who charge to 100% almost exclusively with little range loss and some who never qc and always charge to 80% with significant loss. 100% isnt even true 100% as we don't have access to the battery's full capacity. Seems like all of this is anecdotal at this point. Furthermore, it also may be that the charging issue could be used to blame battery loss on the driver instead of nissan's design. Having said that i almost always charge to 80% since i'm not leasing (just in case)
Birmingham, Alabama
glacier pearl '12 leaf SL with 5700 miles bought from nalley lexus in atlanta on 5/31/12
Leaf #15925
evse upgrade, rev2
range extender = 2003 honda insight

Valdemar
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Location: Oak Park, CA

Re: Nissan dealerships torturing LEAF batteries

Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:40 pm

adric22 wrote:
Herm wrote:A software revision that automatically discharges the battery down to 80% if the car has sat for 3 hours at 100%.
There's a technical problem with that as well. Energy cannot be created or destroyed.. So that energy has to go somewhere. Where will it go?
AC/Heater/Hi-beams?

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