Defectors

[smkettner]

I have two friends who got their Leafs for HOV lane access more than anything else. Today, one is driving a PiP and the other is driving a Volt. Both got out from under their leases but had to pay to do it. Range anxiety and range limitation pushed them out of the Leaf camp after less than a year of ownership.

Enhanced range cannot come soon enough for the Leaf! Even then, it may not be sufficient. Before I heard about Nissan upping the "freeway speed" range to 91+- miles per charge I told myself that I would not lease another one unless it had a range of 100 miles at freeway speeds. I've got 20 months to go.

IMO if you buy for the HOV sticker LEAF is the wrong car for you. HOV people generally have a long commute through the worst traffic areas and prefer to drive 70+ mph. This is just not compatible with current LEAF. I have my stickers, never put them on.

[DeaneG]

...IMO if you buy for the HOV sticker LEAF is the wrong car for you. HOV people generally have a long commute through the worst traffic areas and prefer to drive 70+ mph. This is just not compatible with current LEAF...

HOV stickers are working great for me, 25 mile roundtrip commute. Much less stress and accident danger, and I can wake up half an hour later every day (no need to hit the freeway early to avoid stopped traffic). It's been great. If only it could go as far as San Francisco or Berkeley and back, I'd be completely satisfied.

[BlueSL]

If only it could go as far as San Francisco or Berkeley and back, I'd be completely satisfied.

This pretty much sums it up in a nutshell for me, too. Different starting and ending points, but the same idea. 100 miles at freeway speeds is what I "need." I'd buy an Infiniti that went 150 miles at freeway speeds in a heartbeat.

All other mileage numbers are meaningless, IMO. I am very careful when people ask me about the car's range to explain that it will only go 73 miles at freeway speeds.

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

All other mileage numbers are meaningless, IMO. I am very careful when people ask me about the car's range to explain that it will only go 73 miles at freeway speeds.

Good! I saw a video of a guy talking about his Leaf and how it was about 100, a bit less on highway, a bit more elsewhere, but that's certainly above average and not a fair representation of its range, really. I spoke to people about it yesterday and by far THE question is: What's its range? The only proper answer is 73 miles "give or take depending on conditions".

[Cheezmo]

And despite all that, I consistently get 40-50 miles of range on my Volts. And in the same kind of driving, 60-70 on my Leaf.

Volt: EPA 35, Claim 35, Actual 40+
Leaf: EPA 73, Claim 100, Actual 60-80 (and surely declining as I live in Texas)

Ignoring everything else, which company would you trust more?

I think that Nissan touting a 100 mile range for so long had something to do with it. Then the EPA comes out with a much more realistic 73 mile range...

Speaking of that. I notice Nissan is still advertising the vehicle as 100 miles range. When the EPA came out and rated the Volt at 35 miles, GM immediately changed their advertising to match the EPA rating. Now that they get 38 miles with the new battery they are advertising that. But Nissan hasn't flinched and still touts "up to 100 miles range" on their website.

After owning the car for a year and a half I tend to agree with the EPA on the range. While I know it is certainly possible to get 100 miles in mild city driving situations, that is not realistic for most people.

[DaveinOlyWA]

I think we are jumping the gun on both end here. One thing GM did well is hiding any degradation from the end user. Granted there will always be had coming to the rescue but that kinds negates the green thing

[caffeinekid]

As others have mentioned before, merely stating the maximum range of the vehicle doesn't paint a very accurate picture. I would LOVE it if the thing would ACTUALLY travel a complete 73 miles (which it usually doesn't because it isn't perfect California climate here in Texas) and at mile 70, no matter where that might be, there was a L3 charging station where I could charge up and get another 73 miles. If that were the case, I could probably get away with charging only once while on the road, but as it currently stands I have to charge 2 or 3 times a day- all the time having to plan my charges accordingly. Do I charge here an now, or do I try to make it to the next station? What if there is some sort of delay, detour or the station is down? Etc..

[jkirkebo]

This pretty much sums it up in a nutshell for me, too. Different starting and ending points, but the same idea. 100 miles at freeway speeds is what I "need." I'd buy an Infiniti that went 150 miles at freeway speeds in a heartbeat.

Sounds like you're a candidate for the 60kWh Model S...

[jkirkebo]

We've had our Leaf nearly a year now, and we have done a lot of long-distance driving with it (up to 240 miles in a day). Since we have a extensive fast charger network here, this works well in the summer half of the year. However winter is different as not only the range drops a lot, but the charge times increase a lot too. This leads to the trips taking too much time.

So I have ordered a Model S P85 to do the long distance driving instead. I wouldn't call myself a defector though, as we will keep the Leaf as our second car. The VW TDI is the one ending up being sold, as I hate driving it now that I'm used to driving electric

I could never go back.

I agree that the Leaf needs a larger battery though. Around 32kWh would have made life much easier for us for sure, and I'd happily have paid $8k extra for the extra 8kWh. Or make a 40kWh version and a cheaper 20kWh version for those who doesn't need so much lange.

I'd also pay more for an even larger battery in the Model S if they would offer it before my number is up. Using the 3400mAh cells would up the capacity from 85kWh to 93kWh

[DaveinOlyWA]

As others have mentioned before, merely stating the maximum range of the vehicle doesn't paint a very accurate picture. I would LOVE it if the thing would ACTUALLY travel a complete 73 miles (which it usually doesn't because it isn't perfect California climate here in Texas) and at mile 70, no matter where that might be, there was a L3 charging station where I could charge up and get another 73 miles. If that were the case, I could probably get away with charging only once while on the road, but as it currently stands I have to charge 2 or 3 times a day- all the time having to plan my charges accordingly. Do I charge here an now, or do I try to make it to the next station? What if there is some sort of delay, detour or the station is down? Etc..

so is the issue with the car and its range or public charging network?

sure there are places still in this country (i live just down the road from one) where you will see signs "next gas 45 miles" or whatever and you do have to think, "do i want to stop at this one or risk the next one?"

but how many time do we say "What if the next station is out of gas?"