2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

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Some of the below was posted Reduction gear oil change thread because I realized SOH data on the first drive after changing ATF in our 2016 Leaf SL with 37K miles.

The last charge was on 6 Nov 2020 and Spy Leaf reported State of Health as 96.08% Yesterday 14 May 2021 after a 12.4 mile to mix the Archoil AR9100 additive with the new ATF the SOH was reported to be 96.04%. The 12v battery was disconnected when it was parked. It goes to body shop 28 May.

Nissan put the 40 kWh battery February 2020 at 25K miles. SOH was 99.87 the best I remember.
 
mn4az said:

Welp... if finally happened.... Lost my first bar....

Date 10/24/2019
AHr 67,11
SOH 84.43
V 395.01
Hx 62.19%
ODO 50731
QC 13
L1/L2 2588
SOC 97.50%
GIDS 307
kWh 23.8

2nd bar gone

Date 6/2/2021
AHr 62.57
SOH 78.73
V 395.43
Hx 52.78
ODO 61865
QC 19
L1/L2 3141
SOC 97.70%
GIDS 286
kWh 22.2
 
GaleHawkins said:
How do you see your odds of still being in Warranty at the loss of the 4th bar?

So long as we don't have another pandemic and the bars drop every 11k miles like happened between my 1st and 2nd... really good (>90% odds).

Since the software update (done June 21, 2018) we've driven 29222 miles and my SOH is dropping 2.39% every 5K miles. At that rate we should drop the 4th bar at around 82K miles. This means we have to drive it ~21k miles in 34 months (617 miles/month).

Time will tell and I'll keep updating my thread with every bar drop.
 
mn4az said:
GaleHawkins said:
How do you see your odds of still being in Warranty at the loss of the 4th bar?

So long as we don't have another pandemic and the bars drop every 11k miles like happened between my 1st and 2nd... really good (>90% odds).

Since the software update (done June 21, 2018) we've driven 29222 miles and my SOH is dropping 2.39% every 5K miles. At that rate we should drop the 4th bar at around 82K miles. This means we have to drive it ~21k miles in 34 months (617 miles/month).

Time will tell and I'll keep updating my thread with every bar drop.
If the car lives its life in the same climate, degradation is much more a function of time and not miles driven.
You LEAF battery has degraded ~ 22% since new. The warranty kicks in around 36% degradation.

So e.g. if the car is 5 years old since manufacture, you can expect to hit 36% degradation at 36/(22/5) = 8. 18 years.
Just as Nissan intended. FWIW, Nissan thinks that degradation slows down over time. That has been true in my car. So your chance of winning the battery warranty does not look good to me.
 
mn4az said:
GaleHawkins said:
How do you see your odds of still being in Warranty at the loss of the 4th bar?

So long as we don't have another pandemic and the bars drop every 11k miles like happened between my 1st and 2nd... really good (>90% odds).

Since the software update (done June 21, 2018) we've driven 29222 miles and my SOH is dropping 2.39% every 5K miles. At that rate we should drop the 4th bar at around 82K miles. This means we have to drive it ~21k miles in 34 months (617 miles/month).

Time will tell and I'll keep updating my thread with every bar drop.
If the car lives its life in the same climate, degradation is much more a function of time and not miles driven.
Your LEAF battery has degraded ~ 22% since new. The warranty kicks in around 36% degradation.

So e.g. if the car is 5 years old since manufacture, you can expect to hit 36% degradation at 36/(22/5) = 8. 18 years.
Just as Nissan intended. FWIW, Nissan thinks that degradation slows down over time. That has been true in my car. So your chance of winning the battery warranty does not look good to me.
 
Our 2016 SL OEM 30 kWh battery pack lost 4th bar Thanksgiving 2019 at 25K miles 5 weeks after we bought it. Only history I have it lived in St Louis MO area and BMS was reset Feb 2018.

I think the 40 kWh battery SOH was 99.87% at it's installment Feb 2020 and at 96.08% when it was totalled 7 Nov 2020 after 12K miles of use.

It was fully charged 6 Nov 2020 and when it was totalled the SOH was 96.08% and SOC was 88%. Soon after it was totalled we stripped off the front end including the radiator and condenser because the van that ran the red light and sheared off the nose they impacted the inverter and charger.

We then drove it 2 miles getting up to 68 MPH before we decided to rebuild it. Before we drove it 12 miles 3 weeks ago the SOH was down to 96.06%. After the drive the SOC was down to 77%.

It seems like disconnecting the battery may stop the 0.01 daily SOH decline when parked. I am going to install a blade battery disconnect and test this out when we get it back on the road.
 
GaleHawkins said:
Our 2016 SL OEM 30 kWh battery pack lost 4th bar Thanksgiving 2019 at 25K miles 5 weeks after we bought it. Only history I have it lived in St Louis MO area and BMS was reset Feb 2018.

I think the 40 kWh battery SOH was 99.87% at it's installment Feb 2020 and at 96.08% when it was totalled 7 Nov 2020 after 12K miles of use.

It was fully charged 6 Nov 2020 and when it was totalled the SOH was 96.08% and SOC was 88%. Soon after it was totalled we stripped off the front end including the radiator and condenser because the van that ran the red light and sheared off the nose they impacted the inverter and charger.

We then drove it 2 miles getting up to 68 MPH before we decided to rebuild it. Before we drove it 12 miles 3 weeks ago the SOH was down to 96.06%. After the drive the SOC was down to 77%.

It seems like disconnecting the battery may stop the 0.01 daily SOH decline when parked. I am going to install a blade battery disconnect and test this out when we get it back on the road.
Hobby aside, I'm surprised you don't put the 40 kWh pack into a cheap, crap battery but otherwise in good condition leaf. It might save you countless electronic gremlins that crop up in EVs after accidents.
 
June 6, 2021 update. 279 GID's, SOH=76.73%, Hx=49.79%. 87863 total miles, 42934 miles on new battery, 145 L3 total, 31 on new battery, 1783 l2 total, 902 on new battery. Little late reporting this month and I'm still driving less than 1000 mi/month. That third battery is looking less and less likely. I'm just waiting to see if Congress can get it's act together and pass a new EV incentive. I'm looking more and more at the Y these days even with the price increases. I'd like to do this before the end of the year and that limits my choices.
 
SageBrush said:
GaleHawkins said:
Our 2016 SL OEM 30 kWh battery pack lost 4th bar Thanksgiving 2019 at 25K miles 5 weeks after we bought it. Only history I have it lived in St Louis MO area and BMS was reset Feb 2018.

I think the 40 kWh battery SOH was 99.87% at it's installment Feb 2020 and at 96.08% when it was totalled 7 Nov 2020 after 12K miles of use.

It was fully charged 6 Nov 2020 and when it was totalled the SOH was 96.08% and SOC was 88%. Soon after it was totalled we stripped off the front end including the radiator and condenser because the van that ran the red light and sheared off the nose they impacted the inverter and charger.

We then drove it 2 miles getting up to 68 MPH before we decided to rebuild it. Before we drove it 12 miles 3 weeks ago the SOH was down to 96.06%. After the drive the SOC was down to 77%.

It seems like disconnecting the battery may stop the 0.01 daily SOH decline when parked. I am going to install a blade battery disconnect and test this out when we get it back on the road.
Hobby aside, I'm surprised you don't put the 40 kWh pack into a cheap, crap battery but otherwise in good condition leaf. It might save you countless electronic gremlins that crop up in EVs after accidents.

I am surprised as well at this point in the game. :)

Due to dealing with Ankylosing Spondylitis for of over 50 years I have limited range of motion. I got both hips replaced on 1 August 1991 so I can walk so so but the arthritis has totally fused my spine many years ago. I have zero head movement so I really got use to the 4 camera surround view. In parking lots and drive thru windows it is awesome to see curbs before I feel them.

We got the 2015 Leaf SV home from Brandywine Maryland just before Christmas and was hell bent on finding out why a car with 27K miles and mint inside and outside was totalled by the insurance company. I knew it did not operate and it had been checked out due to removed fuse panel covers and glove box being in the back seat.

We were troubleshooting it outside still setting on a trailer because we couldn't get it out of park. It being winter I came up with a very bad sinus infection that put me in bed.

In hindsight it may have been Covid-19 because am still dealing serious blood clots in both legs since January. Some fragments filled both lungs so I spent Easter weekend in cardiac care unit getting tPA piped directly into each lung.

Since my 5 months of sickness and no success in getting the car to boots up we have decided to make it our parts car. :)

Somehow my son in the tangled nose saw the front camera and it still worked. Good

My hobby needs were met striping down our 2016 and trouble shooting the 2015. :)

Both are setting side-by-side at The body shop today.
 
johnlocke said:
June 6, 2021 update. 279 GID's, SOH=76.73%, Hx=49.79%. 87863 total miles, 42934 miles on new battery, 145 L3 total, 31 on new battery, 1783 l2 total, 902 on new battery. Little late reporting this month and I'm still driving less than 1000 mi/month. That third battery is looking less and less likely. I'm just waiting to see if Congress can get it's act together and pass a new EV incentive. I'm looking more and more at the Y these days even with the price increases. I'd like to do this before the end of the year and that limits my choices.

After the Model Y test drive I really want one but the math doesn't work out just yet so we are hoping to get our 2016 Leaf back on the road since it only has 37K miles on it and the new 40 kWh battery. We need a daily driver for another 3 years.
 
My situation is different -- I'm just a crappy driver. :lol:

Buy yeah -- I've learned to appreciate camera views in the front display. The Tesla lets me put the two side, and rear camera on the display while I am driving. This gives me a lot more confidence when I merge into another lane and I don't drift from turning my head. And parking is a breeze.

That is one heck of a story. Thanks for sharing, and be well.
 
SageBrush said:
mn4az said:
GaleHawkins said:
How do you see your odds of still being in Warranty at the loss of the 4th bar?

So long as we don't have another pandemic and the bars drop every 11k miles like happened between my 1st and 2nd... really good (>90% odds).

Since the software update (done June 21, 2018) we've driven 29222 miles and my SOH is dropping 2.39% every 5K miles. At that rate we should drop the 4th bar at around 82K miles. This means we have to drive it ~21k miles in 34 months (617 miles/month).

Time will tell and I'll keep updating my thread with every bar drop.
If the car lives its life in the same climate, degradation is much more a function of time and not miles driven.
You LEAF battery has degraded ~ 22% since new. The warranty kicks in around 36% degradation.

So e.g. if the car is 5 years old since manufacture, you can expect to hit 36% degradation at 36/(22/5) = 8. 18 years.
Just as Nissan intended. FWIW, Nissan thinks that degradation slows down over time. That has been true in my car. So your chance of winning the battery warranty does not look good to me.

Car has been in same climate (Minnesota) it's entire life as I am the original owner. Your theory may be true, but I'll put out there the following data points to consider:

BMS update (6/21/2018 | 32643 miles) to first bar loss (10/24/2019 | 50731 miles): 2.28 SOH drop per 5K miles driven
BMS update (6/21/2018 | 32643 miles) to 2nd bar loss (6/2/21 | 61865 miles): 2.39 SOH drop per 5k miles driven

From a miles driven perspective the SOH rate drop per 5k miles driven is increasing.

The pandemic slowed our driving down (like everyone else), but I'm guessing we'll be at about ~10K/year now which, if miles driven has greater impact than time, puts us at the warranty replacement sometime in the 2nd half of CY2023 (we bought car late April '16).

Time will tell... I'm taking a LeafSpy measurement every 3 months to see how SOH looks. I'll keep updating the thread as I lose bars or if people are interested in the quarterly SOH numbers I can update at that time as well.
 
GaleHawkins said:
johnlocke said:
June 6, 2021 update. 279 GID's, SOH=76.73%, Hx=49.79%. 87863 total miles, 42934 miles on new battery, 145 L3 total, 31 on new battery, 1783 l2 total, 902 on new battery. Little late reporting this month and I'm still driving less than 1000 mi/month. That third battery is looking less and less likely. I'm just waiting to see if Congress can get it's act together and pass a new EV incentive. I'm looking more and more at the Y these days even with the price increases. I'd like to do this before the end of the year and that limits my choices.

After the Model Y test drive I really want one but the math doesn't work out just yet so we are hoping to get our 2016 Leaf back on the road since it only has 37K miles on it and the new 40 kWh battery. We need a daily driver for another 3 years.
The only reason the math works for me is that if I buy a Y I can expect to drive it for 10-15 years. Can't say that about any other car I can think of. A pick up truck maybe but the gas would kill me (and I've still got my 2005 Tundra with 48,000 miles on it). Cybertruck looks to be just too big for a daily driver. I usually get about 8-10 years out of a new car before the repairs start to pile up and the electronics are now getting too complicated to work on myself anyway. I'd still like to wait for the rebate but I'll need to buy something sooner or later. Since I have 18KW of PV now (Installed 5KW just for the Leaf), Electric seems the only real option. You could say I'm fusion powered.
 
Coming up on four years with my Leaf 30 - here’s where it stands:

SOH 90.7%
Hx 75.0
AHr 72.1
ODO 12,861

Always been garaged and pretty much my local driver. It’s never seen more than 6 temp bars and the garage is 10-15F cooler in the Summer. My odds of getting a 40 KWhr battery under warranty are about nil, unfortunately. I expect I’ll lose one bar in 2-3 years, so overall pleased.

Considering I’ve spent $0 on maintenance, it’s been the cheapest car to run I’ve ever had and no problem starting in any weather.
 
Joe thanks for sharing your awesome Battery stats. Clearly CT is a state that keeps a Leaf battery happy.

Our 2016 SL Battery was just below 65% in November 2019 at 25K miles 5 weeks after I bought it from St Louis Missouri Nissan dealership that leased it new.

What charger and charing practices if any do you follow?

I am now fully charging after every trip (typically 30+ miles) using 240 volts to give max 6.6 amp rate.

High temps we know are bad for our battery pack. It does take longer for the 40 kWh Battery to chill out after a full charge.
 
I purchased my first Leaf in 2013 and at the time, the charging options were more limited than today. I decided to buy the Nissan Panasonic unit that you usually see at Nissan dealers - it’s bulletproof and has never given me any problems. My friend is an electrician and he installed it gratis, so the total cost was very reasonable (plus at the time I did get a tax incentive for the charger).

The purchase incentives for the 2017 were so overwhelming (due to the model change) I decided to sell my 2013 and buy the 2017.

I rarely charge to 100%, only unless I need the range for a longer trip. I keep the battery between 40-80% charge - it’s never been below 20%. I have the fast charge port but have only used that maybe 20 times.
 
joeriv said:
I purchased my first Leaf in 2013 and at the time, the charging options were more limited than today. I decided to buy the Nissan Panasonic unit that you usually see at Nissan dealers - it’s bulletproof and has never given me any problems. My friend is an electrician and he installed it gratis, so the total cost was very reasonable (plus at the time I did get a tax incentive for the charger).
You talking about the Aerovironment unit at https://www.plugincars.com/curious-what-750-gets-you-pics-guts-nissan-leafs-charge-station-106524.html? AV sold their EV charging biz to Webasto (https://investor.avinc.com/news-releases/news-release-details/webasto-acquire-aerovironment-electric-vehicle-charging-and-test). They've also been clearing out their old stock w/various different versions.

https://store.evsolutions.com/mobile/evse-rs-charging-stations-c54.aspx is what's left. There was more selection when I 1st learned of it at https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/webasto-32-30a-evse-fire-sale.38075/.
 
AFAIK, those round Aerovironment L2 EVSEs were theirs and had no Panasonic involvement.

The L1 and L1/L2 EVSEs shipping w/Leafs are Panasonic. I've seen pics of versions shipping in other markets and they still seem to be Panasonic.
 
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