2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Random question: I am at an autonation Nissan here in Tempe az right now and they want to charge about $150 for the annual battery report for my 2017 leaf. I know there first 2 years was free, and last year's was free/included when I had the car in for a servicing. What is the typical price for the report? Do I actually need it for the warranty claim ( my 2017 is at 21k miles/ 9 bars now, and I suspect I will be using that warranty this winter when I will likely lose my fourth bar).
 
I've never heard of a warranty claim being denied due to missing battery checks but it would seem like cheap insurance in your situation. $175 is on the high side of folks have reported paying for this but unless you want to find another dealer to save $50 I'd just hold my nose and pay up. It looks like you'll be getting a new 40kWh pack soon enough so good for you.
 
That is what I did, thanks. My 2017 has been losing one bar per year (usually in the wintertime), so I am guessing that I will lose capacityBar#4 sometime in Jan or feb of 2022.
 
When we got our 2016 Leaf SL our State of Health per Leaf Spy was just under 65% at 22K miles. We lost the 4th bar 5 weeks later.

Watch all that power when you get your to your battery. :) also watch people running red lights. :(

Ours was totalled 7 Nov 2020 and as of June 2021 its SOH had only declined by .02% so it seems like the new technology is much improved.
 
GaleHawkins said:
It seems like disconnecting the battery may stop the 0.01 daily SOH decline when parked. I am going to install a blade battery disconnect and test this out when we get it back on the road.

With my 2016 SV Leaf I got new 40 kWh battery just over 9 months ago under warranty. I keep the battery between 40-80% charge. I'm at SOH 96.4%. 4000 miles on vehicle since getting new battery.

Since then, the only Level 3 (DC) charge was from dealership the day they installed new battery. My battery temperature was 120 degrees F when I picked it up from dealership! It was 90 degrees the following morning and 80 the next day. Outside temperature in San Diego was 70-80. SOH was 99.85% day I picked it up and 99.6% on third day after pickup.

So from 99.6 to 96.4, a 3.2 drop in SOH over 270-290 days is close to 0.01 average daily SOH decline, if my math is correct.
 
July 5, 2021 update. 278 GID's, SOH=76.65%, Hx=49.05%. 88634 total miles, 43705 miles on new battery, 146 L3 total, 32 on new battery, 1806 l2 total, 932 on new battery. Still late reporting this month and I'm still driving less than 1000 mi/month. That third battery is looking less and less likely. Pricing on the Y keeps increasing bit by bit but it still looks like the best option. Maybe if Giga Texas gets rolling with the mega castings for front and rear frames, we might see a price drop along with shorter delivery timeframes.
 
Thanks John. If I was going to get another EV it would definitely be the model y. I can't even get it out of a Model 4 because of arthritis. I am open to the $25,000 version when it gets out if I can get in and out of it it seems to be more like a Nissan Leaf size wise.
 
awhile said:
GaleHawkins said:
It seems like disconnecting the battery may stop the 0.01 daily SOH decline when parked. I am going to install a blade battery disconnect and test this out when we get it back on the road.

With my 2016 SV Leaf I got new 40 kWh battery just over 9 months ago under warranty. I keep the battery between 40-80% charge. I'm at SOH 96.4%. 4000 miles on vehicle since getting new battery.

Since then, the only Level 3 (DC) charge was from dealership the day they installed new battery. My battery temperature was 120 degrees F when I picked it up from dealership! It was 90 degrees the following morning and 80 the next day. Outside temperature in San Diego was 70-80. SOH was 99.85% day I picked it up and 99.6% on third day after pickup.

So from 99.6 to 96.4, a 3.2 drop in SOH over 270-290 days is close to 0.01 average daily SOH decline, if my math is correct.

Thanks for your SOH report that matches my 0.01 daily SOH loss.
 
4 year update on my 2017 S:

AHr = 74.14
SOH = 93.28%
Hx = 79.84%
cell delta = 13 mV (at 57.3% SOC)
QC = 9
L1/L2 = 565
odo = 27,700 miles

I drive probably 50/50 highway and city, usually below 65 mph on highway (that's the speed limit :lol: ). I don't charge to 100% often but if I extrapolate my usage to 100% SOC range would be about 120 miles in summer with this usage.
 
Aug 5, 2021 update. 277 GID's, SOH=76.34%, Hx=49.05%. 89650 total miles, 44721 miles on new battery, 149 L3 total, 35 on new battery, 1836 l2 total, 962 on new battery. Little late reporting this month and I'm driving about 1000 mi/month. Pricing on the Y keeps increasing bit by bit. Maybe if Giga Texas gets rolling with the mega castings for front and rear frames, we might see a price drop along with shorter delivery timeframes.

I have started looking at the Aptera again. It's not in production yet but it would solve several problems for me. The solar panels on board would substantially reduce my SDG&E bill since Aptera would partially recharge during the day and it's much more efficient to begin with. I think I could save about 4000 KWH annually compared to the Leaf. That would mean that I wouldn't need to install any more panels to zero out SDG&E. Since it needs to be parked in the sun, that frees up garage space for a shop. I do wonder about only two seats but most of what I do is by myself or with only one passenger. I still have an Outback that we use for family outings anyway and a Tundra that I use as a farm truck. Cost wise, If the EV rebate ever gets passed, I could be under $20K out the door. Nothing else I've looked at has enough advantages to beat a Y. The ID4 is a contender but it's not much cheaper than a 3+ and I have to wonder about VW's business practices. It currently has rebates available that Tesla doesn't but that could change.

I'd like to wait for 6 mo. or a year but battery degradation is forcing me to charge up out in town a couple of times a week now. I don't know if I can live with the battery problems for that long. A 40KWH replacement under warranty doesn't appear to be in the cards and I'm not going to spend $10K on a battery swap. I'd buy another Leaf instead first but I'd rather buy something else with a proper BMS and active cooling of the battery.
 
Be aware that the Aptera likely will not qualify for the Federal EV credit because it is a three wheeler. Don’t know its status for the California rebate.
 
goldbrick said:
4 year update on my 2017 S:

AHr = 74.14
SOH = 93.28%
Hx = 79.84%
cell delta = 13 mV (at 57.3% SOC)
QC = 9
L1/L2 = 565
odo = 27,700 miles

I drive probably 50/50 highway and city, usually below 65 mph on highway (that's the speed limit :lol: ). I don't charge to 100% often but if I extrapolate my usage to 100% SOC range would be about 120 miles in summer with this usage.

Your battery is holding up very well!
 
91040 said:
Be aware that the Aptera likely will not qualify for the Federal EV credit because it is a three wheeler. Don’t know its status for the California rebate.
Actually as it currently stands, it's the battery size that matters not the number of wheels. Needs to be 16 KWH or more to qualify for the full rebate. Who knows what the new rules might be? Aptera would qualify for the current Federal rebate but it isn't in production yet. I haven't looked into CA rebates too much but I believe that they're similar. If Congress passes a new EV incentive act, the amount and the qualifying criteria will likely change anyway. My concern is that it's only a two seater and I probably won't be able to wait for it to get into production. I doubt that I can stand the battery degradation on my Leaf that long. Pricing on the ID4 is just too close to a Model 3 even after rebates. The Aptera would be substantially cheaper both in initial cost and in operating costs. I'm still thinking about the Y just because it's available now. Maybe a Model 2 for $25K less rebates? A 40KWH LFP battery in a lighter car could work very well. Maybe Musk will pull a car out of his hat?
 
johnlocke said:
91040 said:
Be aware that the Aptera likely will not qualify for the Federal EV credit because it is a three wheeler. Don’t know its status for the California rebate.
Actually as it currently stands, it's the battery size that matters not the number of wheels. Needs to be 16 KWH or more to qualify for the full rebate. Who knows what the new rules might be? Aptera would qualify for the current Federal rebate but it isn't in production yet. I haven't looked into CA rebates too much but I believe that they're similar. If Congress passes a new EV incentive act, the amount and the qualifying criteria will likely change anyway. My concern is that it's only a two seater and I probably won't be able to wait for it to get into production. I doubt that I can stand the battery degradation on my Leaf that long. Pricing on the ID4 is just too close to a Model 3 even after rebates. The Aptera would be substantially cheaper both in initial cost and in operating costs. I'm still thinking about the Y just because it's available now. Maybe a Model 2 for $25K less rebates? A 40KWH LFP battery in a lighter car could work very well. Maybe Musk will pull a car out of his hat?

Would a 3 wheel car technically be classified as a motorcycle, and thus require a motorcycle rating in order to drive and insure it?
 
outerspaceguy said:
johnlocke said:
91040 said:
Be aware that the Aptera likely will not qualify for the Federal EV credit because it is a three wheeler. Don’t know its status for the California rebate.
Actually as it currently stands, it's the battery size that matters not the number of wheels. Needs to be 16 KWH or more to qualify for the full rebate. Who knows what the new rules might be? Aptera would qualify for the current Federal rebate but it isn't in production yet. I haven't looked into CA rebates too much but I believe that they're similar. If Congress passes a new EV incentive act, the amount and the qualifying criteria will likely change anyway. My concern is that it's only a two seater and I probably won't be able to wait for it to get into production. I doubt that I can stand the battery degradation on my Leaf that long. Pricing on the ID4 is just too close to a Model 3 even after rebates. The Aptera would be substantially cheaper both in initial cost and in operating costs. I'm still thinking about the Y just because it's available now. Maybe a Model 2 for $25K less rebates? A 40KWH LFP battery in a lighter car could work very well. Maybe Musk will pull a car out of his hat?

Would a 3 wheel car technically be classified as a motorcycle, and thus require a motorcycle rating in order to drive and insure it?
Yes, technically it is classified as a motorcycle for registration purposes. I'm unsure whether California or other states would require a motorcycle license since it's fully enclosed and has a steering wheel and foot pedals for acceleration and braking. It drives like a car not a motorcycle. With a bureaucracy who knows what the requirements might be. Certainly there's no technical reason to require a motorcycle license. I have both so it never occurred to me to check.
 
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:
cwerdna said:
I guess I need to start a new list for 30 kWh 4 bar losers since old list at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=525968#p525968 arguably isn't really valid now due to the firmware update to fix capacity reporting (https://insideevs.com/news/338528/update-nissan-has-software-fix-for-2016-17-leaf-30-kwh-battery-reporting-issues/ https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10143139-9999.pdf aka campaign PC630).

Here are links to the 30 kWh 4 bar losers I'm aware of post update.

Please chime if I'm missing any 30 kWh 4+ bar losers, made mistakes, double-counted someone, etc. I've included their initials or MNL user name to help avoid confusion or duplication. I'm probably missing some since I haven't been closely watching this and other 30 kWh threads.

1) AB, Dallas, TX, Sept 2020: https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan.leaf.owners.group/permalink/4389071457830328 - he says he got the update in July 2018 already.
2) CaliLeaf, Jan 2020: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=30816
3) GaleHawkins, Feb 2020: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=580411#p580411 - date might not be correct

Unclear about johnlocke's case due to the date https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606&p=529513&hilit=replace#p529513, the campaign date and whether the replacement was premature.

my sister's 2016 30kwh leaf SV hit 4 bars in Feb 17, ( 2020 ) went to the dealership to start the process and didn't get the replacement (40kwh pack) until middle of march.

my own 2016 leaf S just hit 2 bars 2 months ago, so I'll probably lose the 4th bar within 2 years. :(

So I lent my leaf to my nephew for half the year and he managed to really work down the battery! It lost its third bar back in Jun! It seems lots of DCFC's helps accelerate the wear.
 
Sept 3, 2021 update. 272 GID's, SOH=74.94%, Hx=46.16%. 90240 total miles, 45311 miles on new battery, 150 L3 total, 36 on new battery, 1855 l2 total, 981 on new battery. I only drove 590 mi this month. I'm down to a 24KWH battery at this point. Still at 10 bars. The next bar should drop at about 70%. At the rate I'm going that will happen at about 95000 miles.

On a different note, the Model 3 is now available with LFP batteries. The useful life of LFP is 2-3 times longer then NCA. I had ruled out the 3 SR+ because the range would deteriorate faster than I would have liked but with the LFP battery that's no longer true. I assume that the Y will be available with an LFP option sooner or later as well. With a lower price than the current Y long range, it might be the perfect fit. With the LFP battery, vehicle to grid becomes a useful option for power outages or even TOU load balancing. Come home in the afternoon, plug in the car and run off its battery while rates are high. After Midnight, charge the battery back up at the lowest TOU rate for the next day. You could cycle the battery that way for 10-12 years before you would need to replace it. The money you'd save on electricity would probably pay for the new battery and then some. The Tesla Powerwall Control unit without the battery could handle the switching and control the charging or add a single battery pack (13KWH) to the Powerwall for full redundancy and add the car's LFP for extended outages.
 
I bought my 2017 Leaf SV in May of that year. I never quick charged it until I noticed that I had lost 2 bars last Oct. So I bought Leaf Spy and started keeping a closer eye on things. The first few quick charges brought the SOH from 75.x to 76.x. SOH stayed 76.x for months with me doing about 2 QCs a month. I wasn't trying to kill the battery but it was fun to go on longer drives and see how fast a QG would take. SOH took a dive lately. I guess Summer will do that. I work at home and it was plugged in most of the time (L1).

When I brought it for the yearly battery check I wondered if the report would be different than the first 3. It wasn't, 5 stars for everything. Even the, "Frequent charging when battery state is already high". I know it's a useless test but I'd rather pay for 3 - 5 of them, than be told I didn't follow the warranty rules.

So at about year 4.5 on my 2017 SV:

AHr = 58.01
SOH = 72.99%
Hx = 43.82%
cell delta = 13 mV (at 57.3% SOC)
QC = 17
L1/L2 = 1,451
odo = 36,264 miles

I'd appreciate any comment or insights. By the way LeftieBiker, I think it's a riot that you dubbed the 30kwh battery, the lettuce pack. There is not much to laugh about in these forums, but that is a good one.
 
Back
Top